Editing Talk:Queer (section)

== Additions to lead ==

There has been no discussion or objections to the additional details I added a month ago around the uses of queer as both a political umbrella term and as a unique self-identity term, so I am now advocating for updating the lead’s first paragraph to address all three distinct meanings/uses of queer.

It is true that queer is used an umbrella term for people who are non-heterosexual or non-cisgender, but it is equally true that queer is used as an umbrella term for people who reject sexual and gender norms and share a radical political orientation, and that it is used as a unique self-identity term parallel to gay, lesbian, and bisexual. All three related but distinct meanings/uses have been in consistent (if sometimes contradictory) use for decades; none of these are new and none of them supplant the others, as shown by the cited sources.

The political and self-identity meanings/uses of queer were already discussed in the lead, but the page’s first sentence confusingly presented a single definition of queer that precludes the other uses discussed later. I hope the edits I’m making will help readers understand the nuances of how this word is used, since it’s very clear that there isn’t a single universally agreed-upon definition.

Thoughtful, good-faith discussion of the edits I’ve made are very welcome! [[User:RadicalCopyeditor|RadicalCopyeditor]] ([[User talk:RadicalCopyeditor|talk]]) 17:26, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for your work on the article. One thing I would clarify is that Wikipedia articles are about concepts, rather than words ([[WP:NOTDICT]]), so the article isn't going to cover all possible meanings of ''queer''. I do agree the three meanings now covered in the lead, (general umbrella for all sexual and gender minorities; sexual and gender minorities united by a radical political outlook, and as an individual sexuality/gender identity) are closely enough related that they should all be covered within this article. However, there are other meanings that are outside the scope:
:* There have previously been proposals to include the pejorative use of ''queer'' in the core topic of this article, but there has never been consensus to do so. The pejorative use is discussed as part of the etymology of modern queer identities, but is not itself part of the core topic of the article.
:* [[Queer heterosexuality]], ie., extending ''queer'' to cover people who are not LGBTQI+, is covered at its own article. It is covered in [[WP:summary style|summary style]] here as a topic related to, but distinct from, the topic of this article.--[[User:Trystan|Trystan]] ([[User talk:Trystan|talk]]) 16:37, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for your good work on the article too, @[[User:Trystan|Trystan]], particularly your reordering of some of the content. And thanks for this comment. I agree that the goal of this article should not be to cover all possible meanings of ''queer.'' My intention was to ensure that the definition(s) of the word presented at the outset of the article fully reflected the content within the article and the multilayered concept of ''queer'' itself. 
::As it happens, I have been on-and-off working on a merge proposal for [[queer heterosexuality]], because that article is a bit of a mess and doesn't make a lot of sense on its own. So please stay tuned for that!
::The only edit you made that feels off-base to me was your change of "It is alternately used to refer to '''all people''' who reject [[Sexual norm|sexual]] and [[Gender role|gender norms]] and..." to "It is alternately used to refer to '''sexual and gender minority individuals''' who reject [[Sexual norm|sexual]] and [[Gender role|gender norms]] and...". You said "all people" isn't supported by the cited sources, but it is in fact supported by Brontsema and Kornak. Brontsema wrote: "queerness is not based, in stark contrast to gay and lesbian, on sexual object choice, and as such, is not limited to or by same-sex desire. Its inherent inclusiveness allows among its ranks not only queer gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered, but also queer straights, sadomasochists, fetishists, etc." (p. 12). The organizing principle of the political umbrella use of queer isn't about being non-hetero/non-cis, it's about rejecting sexual/gender norms, etc. Most (if not all) such people are non-hetero/non-cis, but it's a vital distinction in terms of the concept/use of ''queer''. 
::"Sexual and gender minority individuals" also doesn't really work grammatically, so I'm going to change it to "people" for now. But if "people" feels too much of a stretch, perhaps "people with non-conforming sexualities and genders" would work? [[User:RadicalCopyeditor|RadicalCopyeditor]] ([[User talk:RadicalCopyeditor|talk]]) 21:38, 11 February 2026 (UTC)