Editing Talk:Milton Keynes (section)

== New infobox collage ==

Hi, I would like to propose a new replacement collage for the infobox section. Since its been more than a decade since it was updated, and the skyline today has changed quite alot now, Wikipedia photographer John Chryslar has recently posted stunning new images that I think would be a nice update to this article. Milton Keynes major wikipedian supervisor [[User:John Maynard Friedman]] has recently questioned the design of the collage I tried to put in the article. Any suggestions? Thanks [[User:Raphael.concorde|Raphael.concorde]] ([[User talk:Raphael.concorde|talk]]) 01:03, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

:I'm not often involved with MK as an editor but I think you used images at night and so at first. My response is night photos do not make good lead photos. The viewers cannot see any of the places clearly in them as they would see them better in daylight. And also removing Christ Church the Cornerstone church imo is a bit unfair given it is one of the cities most notable buildings (religion or not) and you failed to include Bletchley Newport Pagnell Wolverton Stony Stratford or Wombourn Sands in a single photo and echoing what {{ping|John Maynard Friedman}} said in his revert. It represents just central MK and not a few of its notable towns. That's the good thing with [[Stoke on Trent]] and [[Telford]] articles. They represent their constituent parts and not just the one settlement. It's important to keep the town identities intact as despite forming somewhere they have their own grounds to be included as separate photos along side MK itself [[User:DragonofBatley|DragonofBatley]] ([[User talk:DragonofBatley|talk]]) 02:08, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:I have no objection to the principle of updating the collage - as RC says, the skyline of CMK has much changed since then. But it is '''essential''' that the collage be representative of MK as whole. Central is not MK: "MK itself" is all of MK and the original settlements are essential elements of its totality. I agree with DoB re night photos, so looks like we need a campaign over the coming year to build a collection of photos from which to choose a new selection. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 11:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::Hey there, thanks for the tips. I'll email John Chryslar of areas to take pictures other than central MK. By the way hope you had a nice Christmas. Cheers [[User:Raphael.concorde|Raphael.concorde]] ([[User talk:Raphael.concorde|talk]]) 20:53, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

===Another proposal===
Good afternoon, I surfed through the commons pages and put together this new revised collage. Let me know what you think. [[Special:Contributions/147.197.250.54|147.197.250.54]] ([[User talk:147.197.250.54|talk]]) 16:34, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

:@147.197.250.54 On my phone when I view the MK article, initially I only see the top three images, predom8nantly a large green area. The first images need to be the most representative. [[User:PamD|<span style="color: green">'''''Pam'''''</span>]][[User talk:PamD|<span style="color: brown">'''''D'''''</span>]] 07:00, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

{{multiple image
| border                 = infobox
| total_width            = 290
| image_style            = border:1;
| perrow                 = 1/2/2/2/1
| image1                 = Milton_Keynes_Sainsburys-Hub_Skyline.jpg
| image2                 = MiltonKeynesPeacePagoda01.JPG
| image3                 = MiltonKeynesChristtheCornerstone01.jpg
| image4                 = Willen_Lake_North.jpg
| image5                 = Milton_Keynes_Central_Railway_Station_-_geograph.org.uk_-_3953089.jpg
| image6                 = Bletchley_Queensway.JPG
| image7                 = Bletchley_Park_House_-_geograph.org.uk_-_3563770.jpg
| image8                 = MK_Theatre_and_Gallery_buildings.jpg 
}}
| static_image_caption = Top to bottom, left to right: [[Central Milton Keynes]] Hub skyline, the Peace Pagoda - the first built in the Western World, the [[Church of Christ the Cornerstone]], [[Willen Lake]] North and surrounding residences, [[Central Milton Keynes railway station|the railway station]], Queensway strip, [[Bletchley Park]] House, and the Theatre District from [[Campbell Park]]. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/147.197.250.54|147.197.250.54]] ([[User talk:147.197.250.54#top|talk]]) 16:34, 19 February 2023 (UTC)</small> 
:Thank you for bringing this to the talk page. As discussed above, it is timely to refresh the image but I'm afraid I must disagree that this proposal hits the spot, for these reasons: 
:# the result is far too big, intruding much too far down the page (especially in the new design for Wikipedia, no white space beside the ToC to fill). The target should be an image no bigger overall than the current one.
:# Central Milton Keynes is not Milton Keynes: the fraction devoted to CMK is disproprortionate
:##The Hub is a poor example of CMK architecture (unless we want to show that English Partnerships were tasteless vandals). The Theatre and especially the Gallery are far better.
:## the MKC pic could be of any station anywhere. If it is to be included, then we need the frontage (or rather we should but right now it looks like Glasto at the end of a bad week).
:# There are two pics from Bletchley and none from Wolverton, Stony or any other area apart from Furzton Lake (but not Furzton)
:## The pic of Queensway is dire.
:well that's my 2p worth. I don't own the article and I may be in a minority of one. So let's give it a week or two for more opinions. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 20:20, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

'''Alternatively''' (smaller, more widely representative)
{{multiple image
| border                 = infobox
| total_width            = 290
| image_style            = border:1;
| perrow                 = 2/2/2
| image1                 = Church of Christ the Cornerstone, Milton Keynes - geograph.org.uk - 2757796.jpg
| image2                 = Peace Pagoda - geograph.org.uk - 340248.jpg
| image3                 = High Street, Stony Stratford - geograph.org.uk - 1772657.jpg
| image4                 = Bletchley_Park_House_-_geograph.org.uk_-_3563770.jpg
| image5                 = Lonsdale, Wolverton - geograph.org.uk - 1818817.jpg
| image6                 = MK Gallery. Photo - 6a.jpg
}}
| static_image_caption = Top to bottom, left to right:  the [[Church of Christ the Cornerstone]] ([[Central Milton Keynes|CMK]]); the [[Milton Keynes Peace Pagoda]] ([[Willen Lake]]); High Street, [[Stony Stratford]]; [[Bletchley Park]]; [[Grand Union Canal|Canal-side]] redevelopment in [[Wolverton]]; [[Milton Keynes Gallery]] (CMK)

Would that be a reasonable compromise? Two old, four modern; two from CMK, three old towns, one new area; two religious, four secular; two classical design, two pre-C20, two C21. The selection is inevitably arbitrary and we can argue which to include but IMO the total space taken up by the collage should be no bigger. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 12:37, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

:Looks fine to me as it generally grasps what the whole of MK is (i.e. a mix of old and new settlements/landmarks, as well as a mix of built-up areas and green space), without solely focusing on the city centre. [[User:Anonymous MK2006|Anonymous MK2006]] ([[User talk:Anonymous MK2006|talk]]) 20:07, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
::Ideally we should have a city centre skyline first (a 1/2/2/2 arrangement, with #1 being a thin strip) but there is nothing current on Commons that is suitable. 
:* So '''competition time''': when the trees come into leaf, let's see what we can do. Does anyone have access to the telecomms tower in Linford Wood? A long telephoto lens from Oakhill or Cranfield? A drone with a 15° camera? Get out there and shoot early, shoot often! --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 20:51, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

As should be obvious, I've been bold and just made this image set live. I tried it with my skyline shot but even I could see that it is not of the same standard as these six. Further comment below. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 23:04, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

===CMK skyline competition===
[[File:CMK from Great Holm (April 23).jpg|thumb|Central Milton Keynes skyline]]
This is my competition bid: CMK from Great Holm (April 23) --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 23:33, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
:I took it from the playground in Great Holm (52.033631, -0.794748), which has a very good vantage point. Someone else with a better camera, sunnier day, clearer sky, moodier cloud, whatever, may do better. There is also a good view from Portway between Fulmer St and Tattenhoe St if anyone feels lucky enough to stand on the middle of the roadway to take the shot. {{smiley}} --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 23:46, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
::I tried my skyline shot in the group, but the result was just not good enough. My feeling is that it won't ever be possible to get a suitable shot from ground level: the skyline is just too thin. I suspect that will really need someone with a drone-mounted camera at maybe 50 metres above ground over Linford Wood or Campbell Park to do it justice. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 23:14, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

===Stony Stratford High Street===
A more recent pic is needed but, given the importance of the Cock and the Bull in its history, it is important that they be included. I will take a new pic next time I'm up that way (unless someone gets there first). --[[User:JMF|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:JMF|talk]]) 16:06, 26 July 2023 (UTC)