Editing Eurovision Wiki:Village pump (policy) (section)

== Bolded text as an indicator ==

Tables of things quite often use a coloured background for a row or a cell to indicate some specific property of the item in the row/cell.{{br}}
We have an accessibility policy, [[MOS:COLOUR]], that says we should not use '''only''' a colour change as screen readers do not announce this distinction.{{br}}
However, I was unable to find any statement about not using '''only bold''' text as an indicator in a table or list.{{br}}
Do we advise against just bolding an entry and if so, where?  — [[User:GhostInTheMachine|GhostInTheMachine]] <sup>[[User talk:GhostInTheMachine|talk to me]]</sup> 21:01, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
:<code><nowiki><i></nowiki></code> (<code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code>), <code><nowiki><b></nowiki></code> (<code><nowiki>'''</nowiki></code>), <code><nowiki><em></nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki><strong></nowiki></code> have no semantics in modern screen readers[https://vispero.com/resources/screen-readers-support-for-text-level-html-semantics/], so these also should not be used as the only indicators.  [[user:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#c20;text-decoration:underline">sapphaline</span>]] ([[user talk:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#236;text-decoration:underline">talk</span>]]) 10:04, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::strong is explicitly defined in standards (i.e. https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element ) to be meaningful. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 12:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::This doesn't mean that screen readers must convey this meaning.  [[user:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#c20;text-decoration:underline">sapphaline</span>]] ([[user talk:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#236;text-decoration:underline">talk</span>]]) 14:48, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for the link. I was thinking of installing some reader software and seeing what it did, but a nice summary table is so much kinder — [[User:GhostInTheMachine|GhostInTheMachine]] <sup>[[User talk:GhostInTheMachine|talk to me]]</sup> 13:26, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Based on their own user feedback, most screen readers do have "strong" and "em" off by default (it became annoying / may websites misused these tags in the past) - but screen reader UIs change a lot more frequently than HTML standards. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:56, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::"many websites misused these tags in the past" - they're still massively misused, because a lot of CMSes/forum software use Markdown as their markup language, and the only kind of italic and bold Markdown supports is <code><nowiki><em></nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki><strong></nowiki></code>.  [[user:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#c20;text-decoration:underline">sapphaline</span>]] ([[user talk:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#236;text-decoration:underline">talk</span>]]) 14:48, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:[[MOS:NOBOLD]] and [[MOS:EMPHASIS]] are probably the MOS sections you want to see. [[User:Nthep|Nthep]] ([[User talk:Nthep|talk]]) 10:18, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::[[MOS:EMPHASIS]] does not cover bold, but points to [[MOS:NOBOLD]], which talks about avoiding bold in headings and other places which are already bold. It also covers not using bold for emphasis, but does not really say anything explicit about using bold as a status flag or category indicator. Sports or election results tables often use bold to highlight the winner, which also often puts bolding over a link — [[User:GhostInTheMachine|GhostInTheMachine]] <sup>[[User talk:GhostInTheMachine|talk to me]]</sup> 21:54, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:I suspect that <strong><code><nowiki><strong></nowiki></code></strong>could replace this use case, though the MOS discourages its use in articles. As a discussion point here, I'd be fine with promoting the use of strong over bold (including via <code><nowiki>'''...'''</nowiki></code>) as an indicator <strong>in tables</strong>, even on articles. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 12:45, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::Using strong emphasis within a table or list to mark entries with a certain property wouldn't follow semantic usage, though, unless the intent is to give those entries particular emphasis. Best practice for accessibility would be to include another indicator, such as an asterisk, in addition to setting the text in bold. [[User:Isaacl|isaacl]] ([[User talk:Isaacl|talk]]) 17:55, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::A note at [[Template:Dagger#Accessible symbols]] lists a few symbols that should be read by screen readers. Of these, degree ° and prime {{prime}} are rather small and might be part of text anyway; * and # have significance in wiki-text, so I tend to avoid them. Which leaves only dagger {{dagger}} and double-dagger {{double-dagger}}, although the arrows might also be usable. Is this list still valid/complete? Should that information be added to the MOS? I have been tending to use the dagger symbol as a flag instead of bold text. Can somebody who uses a screen reader say if the dagger sign is a good option?  — [[User:GhostInTheMachine|GhostInTheMachine]] <sup>[[User talk:GhostInTheMachine|talk to me]]</sup> 22:42, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::As listed at {{section link|Note (typography)|Numbering and symbols}}, the traditional order for endnote indicators starts with asterisk, dagger, and double-dagger. I think following this order would best align with reader expectations. (There are cases where specific indicators are traditional, like dagger to indicate death or extinction.) [[User:Isaacl|isaacl]] ([[User talk:Isaacl|talk]]) 23:53, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::As a screen reader user, yes, the note at {{tl|dagger}} is still correct. Most screen readers don't indicate bolding etc. by default but can indicate the formatting attributes of the text under the cursor if asked to do so. [[User:Graham87|Graham87]] ([[User talk:Graham87|talk]]) 04:58, 18 March 2026 (UTC)