Editing Eurovision Wiki:Village pump (technical) (section)

== Break markup ==

Hey folks.  For a line break in an article -- in the infobox, or in the body of the article -- is it better to use an HTML break tag (i.e. <code><nowiki><br></nowiki></code> or <code><nowiki><br /></nowiki></code>) or a break template (i.e. {{tl|break}}), and why?  Or does it not make any difference? <span style="font-family: cursive;">— [[User:Mudwater|Mudwater]]<small><sup> ([[User talk:Mudwater|Talk]])</sup></small></span> 17:14, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

:Depends. [[WP:NOBR]] is relevant if what you're making is a list. Otherwise, HTML br is fine generally. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:41, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
:<code><nowiki><br></nowiki></code> is preferable.  <code><nowiki><br /></nowiki></code> is unnecessary [[XHTML]] syntax, and <code><nowiki>{{break}}</nowiki></code> is intended only for cases where you can't use the tag directly.  [[user:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#c20;text-decoration:underline">sapphaline</span>]] ([[user talk:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#236;text-decoration:underline">talk</span>]]) 17:57, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
::Note that this markup shouldn't be used to create unbulleted lists; use [[Template:HTML lists|one of the list templates]].  [[user:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#c20;text-decoration:underline">sapphaline</span>]] ([[user talk:sapphaline|<span class="skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="color:#236;text-decoration:underline">talk</span>]]) 18:01, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
:::{{re|sapphaline}} <code><nowiki><br></nowiki></code> is fine with me, but why do you say that it's preferable to the template? <span style="font-family: cursive;">— [[User:Mudwater|Mudwater]]<small><sup> ([[User talk:Mudwater|Talk]])</sup></small></span> 18:14, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
: or<br />{{code|<br />}} is preferable. {{code|<br>}} generates syntax highlighting errors in the editor. {{kitty}}. In many cases, it is better to use a list template, such as {{TLX|UBL}} or {{TLX|hlist}} — [[User:GhostInTheMachine|GhostInTheMachine]] <sup>[[User talk:GhostInTheMachine|talk to me]]</sup> 20:51, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
::Which editor? Do you mean the old syntax highlighting gadget? [[User:JWBTH|Jack who built the house]] ([[User:JWBTH|talk]]) 20:53, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
:::The editor that I use seems to be called the "2010 wikitext editor". It does get quite upset by plain {{code|<br>}} tags — [[User:GhostInTheMachine|GhostInTheMachine]] <sup>[[User talk:GhostInTheMachine|talk to me]]</sup> 21:05, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
::::You are likely using Dot's syntax highlighter. It is an issue in this way. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:13, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
::::And if not Dot, then potentially [[WP:WIKED]]. Either way, my opinion is that neither of these are necessary today, the tools one might use with them are available in what MediaWiki supports now. You should consider trying those and ditching whatever you do have installed. [[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 21:19, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::No explicitly loaded external stuff, just the standard "2010 wikitext editor" plus the alternative Syntax highlighter via enabling the gadget in Preferences. i.e. [[mw:User:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter|"Dot's"]]. Turning off the gadget reverts to the "standrd" highlighter, which does not care about {{Code|<br>}} vs. {{code|<br />}}, but (after using the gadget version for a while) now looks rather horrible {{):}} {{tag|digression|c}} — [[User:GhostInTheMachine|GhostInTheMachine]] <sup>[[User talk:GhostInTheMachine|talk to me]]</sup> 09:14, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Mudwater}} To return to the original question: as far as our readers are concerned it makes not one scrap of difference. The {{tag|br|o}} tag was introduced in HTML 2.0 way back in 1995, and is valid in all subsequent versions of HTML, but not XHTML (unless followed directly by the closing {{tag|br|c}} tag). The {{tag|br|s}} tag first appeared in XHTML 1 (2000) and is also valid in HTML 5 (2014) as an optional variant of {{tag|br|o}}. The {{tlx|break}} template emits one or more {{tag|br|s}} tags, and browsers simply do not care (or know) whether these tags were typed directly or emitted by a template, function, macro or other typing aid. The MediaWiki software serves HTML 5, and normalises {{tag|br|s}} tags (however produced) to the {{tag|br|o}} form.
:The ''missing'' question - that others are attempting to answer - is this: where are you using these tags? Is it to emit a cosmetic newline, or to make a list? If the former, that's OK; but if the latter, [[MOS:NOBR]] applies everywhere - in infoboxes, prose and talk page discussions. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:29, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
::Yes, [[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]], and everyone else, I should have stated this clearly before now.  I would not use breaks to make a list, I would use a template such as {{tl|plainlist}}, or just use asterisks or pound signs to create bulleted or numbered lists, respectively, with regular Wikipedia markup.  {{smiley}} <span style="font-family: cursive;">— [[User:Mudwater|Mudwater]]<small><sup> ([[User talk:Mudwater|Talk]])</sup></small></span> 23:09, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
:::Here's a bit more background:  I saw [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Garcia_Live_Volume_22&diff=1343809088&oldid=1343647207 this] edit, and started to wonder if there's a reason to prefer either the HTML or the break template.  The readers can't see the difference, and I haven't heard any technical reasons either way, so perhaps it's just a matter of editorial preference.  But if so, some editors might be able to explain why they have a preference.  I'd be interested in hearing any.  Otherwise I won't worry about it too much. <span style="font-family: cursive;">— [[User:Mudwater|Mudwater]]<small><sup> ([[User talk:Mudwater|Talk]])</sup></small></span> 23:15, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
::::This is a cosmetic newline between two parts of an address. I would say that {{tag|br|s}} is fine to use in this instance. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 23:34, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::If people find bare HTML upsetting, then using the {{TLX|break}} template (or the {{TLX|br}} alias) is fine too. I really do not see any need for an edit that switches between tags and templates (or the other way) — [[User:GhostInTheMachine|GhostInTheMachine]] <sup>[[User talk:GhostInTheMachine|talk to me]]</sup> 11:52, 17 March 2026 (UTC)