Editing Talk:Queer (section)

== Proposed merge of [[Queer heterosexuality]] into [[Queer#Queer heterosexuality]] ==


[[Queer heterosexuality]] has been flagged for deletion multiple times and the talk page is full of people arguing it shouldn’t exist. I propose that the notable content be moved to the existing subsection of [[Queer]] and then [[Queer heterosexuality]] be deleted, for reasons of both Notability and Context:

* The page conflates two different things, neither of which is deserving of a standalone article
* The page requires the broader context of the [[Queer]] article in order to be fully intelligible

I just edited [[Queer#Queer heterosexuality]] to reflect the merge I’m proposing. I pared the topic down to four paragraphs, maintaining the notable content from [[Queer heterosexuality]] and adding additional notable content. Here’s my rationale:

[[Queer heterosexuality]] opens with “Queer heterosexuality is the heterosexual practice or identity that is also controversially called queer.” But this isn’t supported by the cited sources. As pointed out by other editors, the article conflates two different things from the cited sources: the queer theory concept of ''queering heterosexuality'' (i.e., subverting heterosexual norms) and the question of ''whether people who are straight can call themselves queer.'' Both topics are best addressed in a subsection of [[Queer]] so they can be understood in context.

The “feminist criticism and queer theory” section disjointedly summarizes a handful of sources without discussing the original queer theory publications that launched the criticism that has central billing in that section. The “examination of masculinity” section doesn’t seem notable. The “controversy” section is dominated by a single Vice op-ed (that fails to cite any straight person who identifies as queer, despite its premise) and a single instance of a celebrity who was criticized for writing a poem that included the line “I’m gay in my art and straight in my life.” 

There are cis straight people who have been criticized for appropriating queer cultural elements for personal gain, and it is reasonable to address this in the Queer article. Far more often, there are people who are perceived as cis and straight but aren’t (because they are actually bi, ace, trans, nonbinary, Two Spirit, etc.) and there are also straight trans people. The existence (and muddled content) of [[Queer heterosexuality]], independent from the larger context of [[Queer]], confuses these issues. I hope others will agree that merging and paring down is the right call. [[User:RadicalCopyeditor|RadicalCopyeditor]] ([[User talk:RadicalCopyeditor|talk]]) 18:06, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

:Fair. I would weakly support this for now. [[User:Lewisguile|Lewisguile]] ([[User talk:Lewisguile|talk]]) 11:34, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
:I see the problems you describe with the current state of [[Queer heterosexuality]], but I'm not sure if what you are proposing really solves all of the fundamental issues. The section within this article still preserves the conflation of queering heterosexuality and straights "queerbaiting"/being "culturally queer". As for the first, the context issue still persists since the section currently comes before [[Queer#Academia]], where ''queering'' as a knowledge-practice is first defined in this article.{{pb}}What might be better would be to take all the queerbaiting/culturally queer stuff out of [[Queer heterosexuality]] &ndash; maybe moving it to something like [[Queering heterosexuality]] to make the focus clear &ndash; and reworking it to fix the issues you mention, but without necessarily amputating quite as much as you propose. Then in this article, culturally queer could be covered under "Usage and scope" as now, with due weight, and [[Queering heterosexuality]] could be referred to under "Academia". <b style="font-family:Monospace">-- [[User:Maddy from Celeste|Maddy from Celeste]] ([[User talk:Maddy from Celeste|WAVEDASH]])</b> 11:51, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
::Really great points @[[User:Maddy from Celeste|Maddy from Celeste]]. Thank you. I was also struggling a bit with the fact that queering heterosexuality (as opposed to queerbaiting etc.) is best understood within the context of [[Queer theory]] / [[Queer#Academia]]. Based on your suggestions I still think [[Queer heterosexuality]] should be merged, but I'm going to counter-propose that the topic of whether straight people can ever be considered part of the queer umbrella be included as part of [[Queer#Usage and scope]] and that queering heterosexuality become a section of the [[Queer theory]] article. [[User:RadicalCopyeditor|RadicalCopyeditor]] ([[User talk:RadicalCopyeditor|talk]]) 15:00, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Yep, then our only difference would essentially be a [[WP:NOPAGE]] issue. I am not really familiar enough with the relecant sources to have much of an opinion on that right now, so I won't object if the article is redirected or turned into a disambiguation page. I found a couple of books I'd have to go read at the library, so if those seem useful I might rewrite it later. But in its current state it's not a big loss anyways. <b style="font-family:Monospace">-- [[User:Maddy from Celeste|Maddy from Celeste]] ([[User talk:Maddy from Celeste|WAVEDASH]])</b> 15:59, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
::::Right. Having spent a lot of time with the relevant sources on-and-off over the last few months, I feel very confident that the subject of ''queering heterosexuality'' is best understood within the context of queer theory and isn't notable enough to justify a standalone article. (Furthermore, the existing [[Queer heterosexuality]] article was clearly initially created by someone who was primarily interested in arguing that straight people shouldn't call themselves queer.) I'm going to work up new suggested text as proposed above, for consideration. [[User:RadicalCopyeditor|RadicalCopyeditor]] ([[User talk:RadicalCopyeditor|talk]]) 17:27, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
:::::Alright, I have new proposed text for consideration: I've edited the relevant section of this article and renamed it [[Queer#Cisgender heterosexuality and queer identities|Cisgender heterosexuality and queer identities]] for consistency with the previous section (Intersex and queer identities), and I've narrowed the focus to the topic of cis straight people identifying as queer. And then over at the [[Queer theory]] article I've added the new section [[Queer theory#Queering heterosexuality|Queering heterosexuality]] with the notable content from the [[Queer heterosexuality]] article along with some additional context on what queering heterosexuality means within queer theory. I'd love your thoughts @[[User:Maddy from Celeste|Maddy from Celeste]]! -- and anyone else who feels like taking a look. I think this is a great solution and will allow readers to understand these disparate issues much better in context, without the need for a standalone article.  [[User:RadicalCopyeditor|RadicalCopyeditor]] ([[User talk:RadicalCopyeditor|talk]]) 23:06, 6 March 2026 (UTC)