Editing Talk:Alberta separatism (section)

== Addition of annexationism and fictional infobox ==

Should the change of scope to include movements to join the United States be included here as per the recent move? Rather than at [[Movements for the annexation of Canada to the United States#Albertan annexationism]] and [[51st state#Alberta]].  Should the infobox that portrays Alberta as a U.S. State since 1905 and run by a Republican be kept? The infobox is [[WP:UNDUE]] imo as the article barely has anything on annexationism overall, and seems to promote how Alberta would look like as a U.S. state. Other separatist movements don't have infoboxes at all. '''[[User:DankJae|<span style="color: black">Dank</span>]][[User talk:DankJae|<span style="color: red">Jae</span>]]''' 09:34, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

:That infobox has to go. It's just somebody's fantasy. Even if annexationism ever gets anywhere (which I personally doubt), there's no guarantee that any of the items listed there would turn out that way. [[WP:CRYSTALBALL]] also applies, I think. The flag and seal should also not appear anywhere in the article. Until reliable sources show actual photographs of the flag in use, it's just a web graphic created by a fringe group, and giving it such prominence in Wikipedia is [[WP:UNDUE]]. [[User:Indefatigable|Indefatigable]] ([[User talk:Indefatigable|talk]]) 20:31, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
::Since there hasn't been any support for the infoboxes, I'll go ahead and delete them. [[User:Indefatigable|Indefatigable]] ([[User talk:Indefatigable|talk]]) 17:38, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Indefatigable|Indefatigable]], well one was added back, but as long as it wasn't the fictional one. '''[[User:DankJae|<span style="color: black">Dank</span>]][[User talk:DankJae|<span style="color: red">Jae</span>]]''' 14:20, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Indefatigable|Indefatigable]], well someone didn't like this discussion as they removed this discussion entirely. Since removed the infobox again per here as the image was changed to Alberta in the United States, seems it is being used for POV purposes. I do wonder if the move to include annexationism should be reverted as nothing has been added to the article since the move and largely still [[WP:UNDUE]] as this article largely only has about one sentence on the annexationism in the body. '''[[User:DankJae|<span style="color: black">Dank</span>]][[User talk:DankJae|<span style="color: red">Jae</span>]]''' 17:11, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Since reverted the move. It was undiscussed and annexationism is a very small part of this article, which nothing new added. There is more detail on the topic at [[Movements for the annexation of Canada to the United States#Albertan annexationism]] and [[51st state#Alberta]] than here.
:::::Of course if there is a case to expand it here, anyone is free to raise an RM, but before any such move. But it probably is best as in or as a separate article as they merely share the outcome of leaving Canada but not the end outcome. '''[[User:DankJae|<span style="color: black">Dank</span>]][[User talk:DankJae|<span style="color: red">Jae</span>]]''' 10:34, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::I agree with going back to the previous article name for now. As for the infobox, most of the really objectionable speculation has been removed from it, but I still think it's inappropriate to have it. First, it's "infobox  settlement", and the article is not about a settlement - it's about a political movement. Second, to echo a slogan from Quebec's history, "If Canada is divisible, Alberta is divisible". There's no guarantee that a separate Alberta would have the same boundaries as it currently has. Thus the area figures in the infobox are [[WP:CRYSTALBALL]]. Take them out, and there's nothing left in the infobox, so delete it completely. [[User:Indefatigable|Indefatigable]] ([[User talk:Indefatigable|talk]]) 13:29, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Indefatigable|Indefatigable]], well it has since been edit warred back in by @[[User:FacilityII|FacilityII]], who first added it and keeps adding it back. FacilityII is there a reason how it meets [[WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE]]? it shows nothing important aside the map which can just be an image on its own. Does the size of Alberta matter? I don't think the article mentions that. '''[[User:DankJae|<span style="color: black">Dank</span>]][[User talk:DankJae|<span style="color: red">Jae</span>]]''' 19:08, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::If you look at the page from over a year ago, or from 2023, it is using (infobox settlement) and has a map with basically the same information in it (including area) as it does now. [[User:FacilityII|FacilityII]] ([[User talk:FacilityII|talk]]) 23:50, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::When it was added doesn't necesarily matter as [[WP:CONSENSUSCANCHANGE]]. It was added undiscussed in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alberta_separatism&diff=1120806080&oldid=1116927385 2022]. It is now being discussed here, as it never was initially. Nonetheless the infobox doesn't really provide anything for a [[WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE]], the size of Alberta or how much of it is water is not a crucial reason for separatism. Therefore just a map is enough imo, like most other separatism articles of existing entities. If someone wants in infobox of Alberta they'll find it at [[Alberta]]. '''[[User:DankJae|<span style="color: black">Dank</span>]][[User talk:DankJae|<span style="color: red">Jae</span>]]''' 19:35, 20 April 2025 (UTC)