Editing Eurovision Wiki:Teahouse (section)

== Help with declined draft — Ilex Press ==

Hello! I recently submitted a draft for [[Draft:Ilex Press]] which was declined for insufficient secondary sources. I have since updated the draft with two new independent citations — Publishers Weekly and Insider Media. I have also disclosed my conflict of interest as the subject is my publisher. My account was created on 14 March and I have 11 edits. Could someone review my updated draft or advise if there is anything else I should improve before resubmitting on 18 March when my account reaches autoconfirmed status? Thank you. [[User:Babybirthday|Babybirthday]] ([[User talk:Babybirthday|talk]]) 10:51, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

:Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Please make sure that the subject follows [[WP:42|our 'golden rule']], specifically regarding [[WP:SIGCOV|significant coverage]], [[WP:Reliable sources|reliable sources]], and [[WP:Independent sources|independence of sources from the subject matter]], then work on it again. Cheers! '''[[User:.nhals8|<span style="color:#fff; background:#A41720">n.h.huit, 化けの花</span>]]''' 11:05, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
::Thank you for the guidance. I believe my updated citations meet these criteria. Publishers Weekly ran a full independent feature on Ilex Press entering the US market (2012), and Insider Media covered the acquisition by Octopus Publishing Group (2014). Both are established independent trade publications with editorial oversight. I plan to resubmit on 18 March when my account reaches autoconfirmed status. Would you be willing to take a look at Draft:Ilex Press before then? [[User:Babybirthday|Babybirthday]] ([[User talk:Babybirthday|talk]]) 11:18, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
:::{{u|Babybirthday}} Those are routine business activities that does not establish notability, see [[WP:ORGDEPTH]].
:::You have already resubmitted the draft. 
:::You disclosed a conflict of interest, what is the general nature of it? [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 11:33, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
::::They published your book, is that it? [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 11:38, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yes, Ilex Press published three of my photography books (2015, 2017, and 2022). I am the subject Demetrius Fordham and I have disclosed this on my user page and on the Talk page of the article about me.
:::::Regarding notability — I understand the concern about routine business activities. I would like to ask: would coverage of Ilex Press's publishing output and reputation as a specialist photography publisher be more appropriate? Publishers Weekly described them as a specialist publisher with a bestselling title selling 400,000 copies worldwide. They also have translated books into 22+ languages and co-published with major houses including Chronicle Books and Abrams. Would that angle strengthen the notability case sufficiently, or would you recommend a different approach entirely? [[User:Babybirthday|Babybirthday]] ([[User talk:Babybirthday|talk]]) 23:34, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::Not just a description, but as part of a significant coverage ''of'' the publisher. Also note that trade publications have to be sourced with care, since part of the mission of trade publications is advocacy for companies in their industry.
::::::I think you're writing the whole article [[WP:BACKWARD]]. Start with independent, reliable sources that provide significant coverage ''of'' Ilex Press, and work from the sources. What would you say your three strongest sources are that fulfill all the requirements of the previous sentence? [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 15:31, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::<blockquote>Thank you for the clear guidance. My three strongest independent sources that provide significant coverage of Ilex Press specifically are:</blockquote><blockquote>
:::::::# Publishers Weekly (2012) — A full feature article dedicated entirely to Ilex Press entering the US market, covering their history, publishing focus, bestselling titles, and business strategy: https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/publisher-news/article/53335-ilex-press-enters-u-s-publishing-market.html
:::::::</blockquote><blockquote>
:::::::# The Bookseller (2014) — Independent coverage of the Octopus Publishing Group acquisition of Ilex Press: https://www.thebookseller.com/news/octopus-buys-ilex
:::::::</blockquote><blockquote>
:::::::# Insider Media (2014) — Independent regional business press covering the acquisition with direct quotes from both parties: https://www.insidermedia.com/news/south-east/129441-ilex-press-wrapped-octopus
:::::::</blockquote><blockquote>Would these three sources be sufficient to establish notability if the article were rebuilt around them rather than the other way around? I am happy to rewrite the draft entirely based on your guidance.</blockquote> [[User:Babybirthday|Babybirthday]] ([[User talk:Babybirthday|talk]]) 02:44, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::::Hate to add to the burden but to guarantee [[WP: Notability (events)|notability for events]], [[WP:ROUTINE|routine news reporting]] (i.e. stuff that gets largely exempted from newsworthiness discussions) can't be sufficient basis for an article. '''[[User:.nhals8|<span style="color:#fff; background:#A41720">nhals8</span>]]''' 04:47, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::Essentially, stuff like proper analyses, indepth profiles, an coverage on Ilex Press *itself* instead of just announcements would get you out of that [[WP:ROUTINE]] reporting. '''[[User:.nhals8|<span style="color:#fff; background:#A41720">nhals8</span>]]''' 04:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
::::::::I have to agree with nhals8. Even being as generous as possible to the trade publication, the other two sources are very poor for these reasons. If two of the three best sources are what we call trivial coverage, I don't believe an article is possible for this company at this time. [[User:CoffeeCrumbs|CoffeeCrumbs]] ([[User talk:CoffeeCrumbs|talk]]) 08:44, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
:Thank you for the feedback. I now understand that the sources provide only routine coverage rather than the significant independent coverage required. I will keep the draft in userspace and will not resubmit it until I can locate in-depth independent sources specifically about Ilex Press. I appreciate the community's guidance. [[User:Babybirthday|Babybirthday]] ([[User talk:Babybirthday|talk]]) 10:17, 17 March 2026 (UTC)