Editing Talk:2022–2023 Brazilian coup plot

{{Talk header}}
{{ITN talk|12 September|2025|oldid=1310875043}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|blp=other|collapsed=yes|1=
{{WikiProject Brazil|importance=Mid|gov=yes|history=yes}}
{{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Military history|b1=no|b2=no|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes|European=yes|South-American=yes}}
{{WikiProject Politics|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Sociology|importance=Low|Social movements=yes}}
}}
{{Section sizes}}
{{Translated page|pt|Planejamento de golpe de Estado no Brasil após as eleições de 2022|small=no}}

<!-- Template:Setup auto archiving -->
{{User:MiszaBot/config| algo                = old(720d)
| archive             = Talk:2022–2023 Brazilian coup plot/Archive %(counter)d
| counter             = 1
| maxarchivesize      = 125K
| archiveheader       = {{Automatic archive navigator}}
| minthreadstoarchive = 1
| minthreadsleft      = 5
}}

{{old move|date=15 September 2025|from=2022 Brazilian coup plot|destination=2022–2023 Brazilian coup plot|result=moved|link=Special:Permalink/1312037606#Requested move 15 September 2025}}

== Needs English-language sources ==

they do exist, but I need to do a couple of things before it gets dark. Will work on this a bit later if nobody else is on it by then 

PS added Bolsonaro's denial of guilt to the lede. [[User:Elinruby|Elinruby]] ([[User talk:Elinruby|talk]]) 22:41, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
: Yeah, for now, I'm collecting some of them in {{slink|2022 Brazilian attempted coup plot|Further reading|nopage=yes}}. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 02:42, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
:Agree. For now I reviewed all refs to make sure all of them had <code>trans-title</code>, but yeah definitely there should be more sources in English. --[[User:ArlindoPereira|ArlindoPereira]] ([[User talk:ArlindoPereira|talk]]) 09:06, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

Found this for the "green and dagger arrow" recent (as of 2024) stuff: https://oglobo.globo.com/english/noticia/2024/11/19/arsenal-route-mapping-and-coup-attempt-timeline-reveals-plan-to-assassinate-moraes-lula-and-alckmin-according-to-federal-police.ghtml [[User:Fmoliveira]] ([[User talk:Fmoliveira|talk]]) 26 November 2024  <!--Template:Undated--><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 20:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Printer forensics ==

[https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots]

Plausible if it was a PDF if I am understanding this. We should try to update this point, which should be better explained if pertinent or deleted if it turns out to not apply. [[User:Elinruby|Elinruby]] ([[User talk:Elinruby|talk]]) 21:00, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

== Indictment

== Requested move 15 September 2025 ==

<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: var(--background-color-success-subtle, #efe); color: var(--color-base, inherit); margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted var(--border-color-subtle, #AAAAAA);"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color: var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] '''after''' discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''

The result of the move request was: '''moved.''' As Bolsonaro has been convicted, the !votes to wait are now moot. <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]<sub>[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]<sub>[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]</sub></sub> ([[She (pronoun)|she]]/[[Singular they|they]]) 12:35, 19 September 2025 (UTC)
----

[[:2022 Brazilian coup plot]] → {{no redirect|2022–2023 Brazilian coup plot}} – Please place your rationale for the proposed move here. [[User:Ilikeyoshi|<span style="font-family:'MARIO Font v3_2 Solid';">ilikeyossy</span>]] [[User talk:Ilikeyoshi|<span style="color:#0f0;">'''Yoshi! (msg me)'''</span>]] 15:15, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

[[:2022 Brazilian coup plot]] → {{no redirect|2022–2023 Brazilian coup plot}} – Per Portuguese version. [[User:ArionStar|ArionStar]] ([[User talk:ArionStar|talk]]) 19:47, 4 September 2025 (UTC)<small>—&nbsp;'''''Relisting.'''''&nbsp;[[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 12:18, 12 September 2025 (UTC)</small>

:I think one should wait for the result of the trial on September 12 before making this decision. Jair Bolsonaro and the other defendants are being charged with five crimes:
:* Attempted violent abolition of the democratic rule of law;
:* Attempted coup d’état;
:* Participation in an armed criminal organization;
:* Qualified damage;
:* Deterioration of protected heritage property.
:The last two crimes refer specifically to the attacks in Brasília on January 8. If one or more defendants are convicted of all the crimes, this would show a connection between the coup-plotting meetings in November–December 2022 and January 8. However, if the Supreme Court convicts the defendants of the first three crimes but acquits them of the last two, it would mean that the Court considered the core of the coup attempt to have taken place in November–December 2022, with January 8 being irrelevant in terms of coup intent.
:In summary:
:* If Bolsonaro and/or the other defendants are convicted of Qualified damage and/or Deterioration of protected heritage property → rename the article to '''2022–2023 Brazilian coup plot'''.
:* Otherwise, keep it as it is.
:[[User:Victor R de Oliveira|Victor R de Oliveira]] ([[User talk:Victor R de Oliveira|talk]]) 03:50, 5 September 2025 (UTC)
::And in my opinion it should be seen as a coup attempt, not just plot. The investigation were explicitly that the coup went far beyond the "plotting" phase, and only failed due to the lack of support among the Armed Forces. [[User:Erick Soares3|Erick Soares3]] ([[User talk:Erick Soares3|talk]]) 20:37, 11 September 2025 (UTC)
:I would agree that it's probably best to wait as this is an ongoing event. It may be that as time goes on a different title will be given to it in the relevant sources (newspapers, trial documents, etc), and so the article may warrant a name change then. As it stands, '''2022 Brazilian coup plot''' is descriptive and clear enough that it's unlikely to cause confusion, so I think it makes sense to keep it for now and see how things develop. [[User:Retinalsummer|Retinalsummer]] ([[User talk:Retinalsummer|talk]]) 12:27, 12 September 2025 (UTC)
::Apologies, I meant to say "discussion of trial documents". Sorry for the confusion. [[User:Retinalsummer|Retinalsummer]] ([[User talk:Retinalsummer|talk]]) 12:30, 12 September 2025 (UTC)
* '''Support''' — Bolsonaro has been convicted on all five charges. The storming of government buildings on January 8th, 2023 was a critical part of the coup plot. 
:— <span style="background:#960000;padding:2px 12px;font-size:12px">[[User:Combefere|<span style="color:#fff">Combefere</span>]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">★</span> [[User talk:Combefere|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]]</span> 23:08, 12 September 2025 (UTC)
::One week later, Bolsonaro and other related military were all convicted, I think we should go forward renaming it to '''2022–2023 Brazilian coup attempt'''. Just for the reference, the exact same name is used in Portuguese wikipedia: [[:pt:Tentativa de golpe de Estado no Brasil em 2022–2023]]. --[[User:ArlindoPereira|ArlindoPereira]] ([[User talk:ArlindoPereira|talk]]) 07:30, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
</div><div style="clear:both;" class=></div>

== Is it still "allegedly"? ==

Since the trial has now ended in a conviction on all counts for Bolsonaro and others, can we now remove the word "allegedly" from the lead sentence? [[User:Rose Abrams|<span style="color:#0000ff;">Rose Abrams</span>]] ([[User talk:Rose Abrams|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Rose Abrams|C]] [[Special:Log/Rose Abrams|L]]) 08:15, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

:{{done}} <span style="background:#960000;padding:2px 12px;font-size:12px">[[User:Combefere|<span style="color:#fff">Combefere</span>]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">★</span> [[User talk:Combefere|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]]</span> 23:55, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

== Proposed merge of [[Pro-Bolsonaro demonstrations on Paulista Avenue]] into [[2022–2023 Brazilian coup plot]] ==
This page is too specific and short for something that happened in [[:c:Category:Brazil photographs taken on 2024-02-25|other places]] besides this avenue. And so few sources. It's a continuation of [[2022–2023 Brazilian election protests]]. [[User:Abesca|Abesca]] ([[User talk:Abesca|talk]]) 01:22, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
:<small>Note: [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sociology|WikiProject Sociology]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics|WikiProject Politics]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Brazil/History of Brazil task force|WikiProject Brazil/History of Brazil task force]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history|WikiProject Military history]], [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sociology/Social movements task force|WikiProject Sociology/Social movements task force]], and [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Brazil|WikiProject Brazil]] have been notified of this discussion. [[User:Abesca|Abesca]] ([[User talk:Abesca|talk]]) 01:24, 18 February 2026 (UTC)</small>
::Honestly, i support this, article is orphaned and very small, should be merged if not relevant enough to warrant more additions. [[User:MySalsa22|MySalsa22]] ([[User talk:MySalsa22|talk]]) 02:20, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
:'''Support''', no reason for this to be separate from the main subject. '''[[User:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color:#0c4709">Thebiguglyalien</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color:#472c09">talk</span>]]) 02:09, 7 March 2026 (UTC)