Editing Talk:2024 Iran–Israel conflict

{{pp|small=yes}}
{{Talk header}}
{{Contentious topics/talk notice|topic=a-i}}
{{Contentious topics/talk notice|irp}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|
{{WikiProject Iran}}
{{WikiProject Israel}}
{{WikiProject Military history|class=C|Asian=y|Middle-Eastern=y|Post-Cold-War=y|b1=yes|b2=no|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes}}
}}
{{Old move |date=13 June 2025 |from=2024 Iran–Israel conflict |destination=2024–2025 Iran–Israel conflict |result= Not moved|link=Special:Permalink/1296265532}}
{{refideas 
 | {{cite news | title = Iran Fires Back at Israel's Netanyahu in Rare Video Message to Jews {{!}} Dawn News English | url = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8l63VMPzko&ab_channel=DawnNewsEnglish | access-date = 21 November 2024 | work = www.youtube.com/@DawnNewsEnglish [[Dawn News |Dawn News English]] | date = 19 November 2024 | quote = <small>Description: "Save the divine Jewish Faith from zionist forgeries marred by Aggression, Apartheid, and Genocide," Iranian Presidential aide, Mohammad-Javad Zarif said in a video message to the Jewish across the globe.</small> }}
 | {{cite news | title = 'Ideology of Zionism contradicts 10 commandments of Prophet Moses': VP, Iran for Strategic Affairs | url = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiHfEOdlo0s&ab_channel=ThePrint | access-date = 21 November 2024 | work = www.youtube.com/@ThePrintIndia [[The Print (India)]] | date = 18 November 2024 | quote = <small>Description: …Mohammad Javad Zarif, Vice President of Iran for Strategic Affairs in his statement on Monday.</small> }}
}}

{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{aan}}
|maxarchivesize = 250K
|counter = 1
|minthreadsleft = 4
|algo = old(14d)
|archive = Talk:2024 Iran–Israel conflict/Archive %(counter)d
}}

== Requested move 13 June 2025 ==
<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: var(--background-color-success-subtle, #efe); color: var(--color-base, inherit); margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted var(--border-color-subtle, #AAAAAA);"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color: var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] '''after''' discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''

The result of the move request was: '''Not moved.''' This is a case where changing consensus, [[WP:BOLD]], and common sense come together to overrule a strict numerical count of !votes. As the discussion wore on, opposition became a greater proportion of !votes. This discussion has been somewhat overtaken by events and by discussions on other pages. Given the renaming of [[Iran-Israel War]] and the outcomes of a few deletion discussions, the simplest, least messy solution is to keep this article focused on 2024 events. The 2025 escalation/war should primarily be covered at [[Iran-Israel War]] and related pages.  Possible renaming to another alternative such as "Prelude to the Iran-Israel War should be discussed in a fresh discussion to generate a clear consensus.  —[[User:Ganesha811|Ganesha811]] ([[User talk:Ganesha811|talk]]) 23:12, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
----

[[:2024 Iran–Israel conflict]] → {{no redirect|2024–2025 Iran–Israel conflict}} – Match descriptive title to the content of the article. The subject of the article is something that began in 2024 and is ongoing.{{pb}}This should be non-controversial, but RM is mandatory for this article as per the protection log. —[[User talk:Alalch E.|Alalch E.]] 05:31, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

*'''Strong Support''' If it wasn't already evident with todays events. [[User:Yesyesmrcool|Yesyesmrcool]] ([[User talk:Yesyesmrcool|talk]]) 06:17, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' unless for some reason the most recent strikes create a new article; though I'd imagine it's best kept here. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 06:27, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' A phase of this conflict is taking place in 2025. The article's title should be updated to reflect that. [[User:NesserWiki|NesserWiki]] ([[User talk:NesserWiki|talk]]) 06:40, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support''' for obvious reason that conflict is still ongoing [[User:EvansHallBear|EvansHallBear]] ([[User talk:EvansHallBear|talk]]) 06:53, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The current attack is not directly related to the previous attacks. The article is almost unnecessary. We already have many articles discussing the same topic. [[User:Hauskasic|Hauskasic]] ([[User talk:Hauskasic|talk]]) 08:58, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::all three attacks were mostly disconnected but are the "Iranian component" of the Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present) [[User:Braganza|Braganza]] ([[User talk:Braganza|talk]]) 13:29, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' for now. The conflict has so far remained contained, as both sides have taken measures to avoid a full-scale war. However, today's attacks may mark the beginning of a true war between the two countries - something of a different nature and scale than the previous conflict. If that happens, we might need to create a separate article titled 2025 Iran–Israel war, and it would not be appropriate to merge the current events with this article. [[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] ([[User talk:Lova Falk|talk]]) 09:00, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Weak support''' for now. So far, the recent bombing of iran seems to be a full-on war (up until the writing of this comment, that is) I say we change the name of the article then we wait to see how the situation develops. [[Special:Contributions/88.238.37.182|88.238.37.182]] ([[User talk:88.238.37.182|talk]]) 10:34, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support''' The conflict is ongoing in June 2025. [[User:IJA|IJA]] ([[User talk:IJA|talk]]) 12:15, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - It is still happening in 2025. [[User:DCAllStar|DCAllStar]] ([[User talk:DCAllStar|talk]]) 13:14, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' These are distinct events and the June 2025 events should be removed as a section from this article. [[User:Yeoutie|Yeoutie]] ([[User talk:Yeoutie|talk]]) 15:35, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. This is a ''conflict''; not a war. Ergo, there is no uninterrupted chronological continuity of direct attacks from either side. Yet, the conflict remains as significant as it ever was, with both sides unmoved from their positions vis-à-vis each other and persistent diplomatic confrontation. And we have significant military events in 2025. No-brainer. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 17:34, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::Just for the record — "Conflict" in most cases is just a sugar-coated way of saying 'war'. We have ''military'' strikes between two countries, which have been ongoing, and costing many military and civilian lives on both sides. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 22:03, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
:::I reject the premise about "sugar-coating." History clearly distinguishes conflicts and wars. Conflicts can last for quite a long time without military clashes; but not wars. As just one example, and a trivial one at that, we have the infamous ''drôle de guerre'' ("ridiculous war"), i.e. the period between the declaration of war by Britain and France against Germany in 1939 and the time actual, significant military clashes began, especially as far as France was concerned. We called "[[Cold War]]" the post-war period of hostile posturing between USSR and US precisely because it was not a "proper" (a "hot"!) war. Between Israel and Iran we have, still, thankfully, a conflict. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 12:09, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Re: the opinion, {{tq|"Conflicts can last for quite a long time without military clashes; but not wars." }}  Well, this "conflict", has involved full scale "military clashes". Otoh, there have been plenty of wars that have lasted many years. — At the same time, some wars are relatively short lived.So it's not the length of time that determines whether a situation is a "conflict" or a "war", but rather its nature. i.e. Does it involve wide spread killing and destruction at the hand two opposing military regimes? If it does it should be referred to as a 'war'. — In any case, perhaps we are losing focus on the issue at hand. The proposed move doesn't seek to change the term "conflict" in the title. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 21:06, 16 June 2025 (UTC) 

*'''Change''' temporarily to [[Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)]] until the conflict has concluded or war is declared. This follows the titular fashion of the [[Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)]] article, among others. [[User:Vataxevader|Vataxevader]] ([[User talk:Vataxevader|talk]]) 17:38, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

::Not a bad suggestion at all! But since the choice is binary, we can keep it as the next step. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 16:28, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
:::What does that mean? As per @[[User:Evaporation123|Evaporation123]], renaming the article ''"2024–2025 Iran–Israel conflict"'' gives the impression that the conflict began in 2024 and concluded in 2025. If it is decided that the conflicts in 2024 and 2025 umbrella under one article (this one), then the title should include ''"(2024–present)"'' since the conflict is still ongoing  with [[WP:CRYSTAL|no determination for its ending]]. [[User:Vataxevader|Vataxevader]] ([[User talk:Vataxevader|talk]]) 21:01, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Vataxevader|Vataxevader]] I started the RM and chose the format I chose because it's the simplest iterative step, and there is somewhat of a convention on Wikipedia that even though this format could be understood to indicate a terminal date and so suggest that the event has ended, it really does not have to be understood in this way. But I agree that your alternative is better. We can just do that after this RM). We'll ask an admin (it might take another RM tho...) —[[User talk:Alalch E.|Alalch E.]] 21:22, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Understood, and we may end up seeing a [[2025 Iran–Israel conflict]] article if the articles for the exchange of strikes are merged. If not, the naming convention should be decided by admin. [[User:Vataxevader|Vataxevader]] ([[User talk:Vataxevader|talk]]) 22:57, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' and keep the current title protect the notability of a separate conflict from the one currently ensuing. [[User:Vataxevader|Vataxevader]] ([[User talk:Vataxevader|talk]]) 04:20, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support change to Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)'''. "2024–2025" gives a false impression. [[User:Evaporation123|Evaporation123]] ([[User talk:Evaporation123|talk]]) 19:41, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*Support '''[[User:TimeToFixThis|<span style="color:black;">TimeToFixThis</span>]]''' &#124; [[User talk:TimeToFixThis|🕒]] 20:33, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
* '''Support''' per recent events. [[User:Urban Versis 32|<span style="color:grey"><b>Urban</b></span> <span style="color:red"><b>Versis</b></span> <b>32</b>]]<sup><i>KB</i></sup> ⚡ <sup>([[User talk:Urban Versis 32|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Urban Versis 32|contribs]])</sup> 21:30, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support''' It should be together with the 2025 one because they are almost the same and were together with the April and October ones. or simply "Israel-Iran conflict (2024-Present) Because they can continue [[User:Farcazo|Farcazo]] ([[User talk:Farcazo|talk]]) 22:34, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong Support''' it seems to be going into 2025 [[Special:Contributions/2600:387:F:560E:0:0:0:1E|2600:387:F:560E:0:0:0:1E]] ([[User talk:2600:387:F:560E:0:0:0:1E|talk]]) 23:48, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::It seems that there is an attempt to influence this voting. This IP had one edit and it's written that "This IP address is currently partially blocked". With regards, [[User:Oleg Yunakov|<span style="font-family:Segoe Script;">Oleg Y.</span>]] ([[User talk:Oleg Yunakov|talk]]) 15:25, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Participation to an RfC is not restricted to long-time editors. And we do not strike off blocked editors' comments; only banned editors'. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 12:09, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong Support''' Like it is obvious.[[User:AlAboud83|Alhanuty]] ([[User talk:AlAboud83|talk]]) 23:48, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' per aboves [[Special:Contributions/2405:6E00:2805:7314:2FF3:7A9B:730A:57C1|2405:6E00:2805:7314:2FF3:7A9B:730A:57C1]] ([[User talk:2405:6E00:2805:7314:2FF3:7A9B:730A:57C1|talk]]) 00:20, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
::It seems that there is an attempt to influence this voting. This IP had one edit and it's written that "This IP address is currently partially blocked". With regards, [[User:Oleg Yunakov|<span style="font-family:Segoe Script;">Oleg Y.</span>]] ([[User talk:Oleg Yunakov|talk]]) 15:25, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
:::If you suspect [[WP:MEATPUPPET|meat puppetry]], you may want to take it to the appropriate page. We do not strike off contributions without any basis in policy. Hunches will not do. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 12:09, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support procedural close''' per obvious. [[User:CommunityNotesContributor|CNC]] ([[User talk:CommunityNotesContributor|talk]]) 00:58, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*While this seems like it should be obvious, I'm actually going to '''Oppose''' here. The recent strikes (and declarations of war) mark a clear escalation and separation. This article should remain about events in 2024, with events from June 2025 spun off into their own article covering this new stage of conflict. [[User:BSMRD|BSMRD]] ([[User talk:BSMRD|talk]]) 04:26, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support''' given the obvious scope being increased. Although as has been mentioned, a split might be warranted, depending on how we choose to categorize the recent events. [[User:Gust Justice|Gust Justice]] ([[User talk:Gust Justice|talk]]) 09:46, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' too early and no indication this set of strikes is by anyway similar to the previous. The best path forward is to wait a few days before creating an [[Iran–Israel War]] article and leave this one just for the 2024 events, eventually renaming it to [[Prelude to the Iran–Israel War]]. Meanwhile, we should stop extending the scope of the article before this discussion closes. We cannot have the 2025 events introduced with no discussion if the title still says just 2024. [[User:Basque mapping|Basque mapping]] ([[User talk:Basque mapping|talk]]) 12:06, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support ''(tentative)''''' – I agree that the conflict is ongoing and clearly spilling into 2025, so a rename is justified for now. However, I think we should monitor how the situation evolves. If this continue to  escalate into a full-scale war, we may later need to split the 2025 events into their own article. For the time being, I'm in support with the broader title like "2024–2025 Iran–Israel conflict" or even "Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)" until clearer lines are drawn.  [[User:ElijahUHC|<span style="color:darkorange;">'''ElijahUHC'''</span>]] [[User talk:ElijahUHC|<span style="color:darkorange;">(Talk)</span>]] 12:16, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*<s>'''Wait'''</s> There is a discussion going on at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/June 2025 Iranian strikes on Israel]] to merge [[June 2025 Israeli strikes on Iran]] and [[June 2025 Iranian strikes on Israel]] and then potentially rename the page formed after that to cover the 2025 conflict. Moving this page now could possibly create a duplicate. <span style="font:'Pristina'">[[user:Keivan.f|<span style="color: #1E7HDC">Keivan.f</span>]]</span><span style="font:'Pristina'"><sup>[[user_talk:Keivan.f|<span style="color: purple">Talk</span>]]</sup></span> 12:58, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*:The merger of those two pages would still be a subtopic of this, broader, topic. Summary style. —[[User talk:Alalch E.|Alalch E.]] 16:41, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*::'''Oppose''' This article pretty much covers the one off events that happened in 2024. The current conflict that has been going on for days now is covered as [[Iran–Israel War]]. I don't know why we need to create a duplicate. <span style="font:'Pristina'">[[user:Keivan.f|<span style="color: #1E7HDC">Keivan.f</span>]]</span><span style="font:'Pristina'"><sup>[[user_talk:Keivan.f|<span style="color: purple">Talk</span>]]</sup></span> 20:59, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' I think the two events are unrelated. In my view, a proper new article for the current war would be the best approach. Moreover, I haven’t seen any reliable sources drawing a connection between them. This conflict is on an entirely different scale and of a different nature altogether. The new article on the current war is far better suited to the task than this one, which should be seen as important background context. [[User:KiltedKangaroo|KiltedKangaroo]] ([[User talk:KiltedKangaroo|talk]]) 19:41, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
::You are referring to the spurious new article "[[Israel – Iran war]]" currently undergoing AfD. What you say is false. {{tqq|I haven’t seen any reliable sources drawing a connection between them.}} Well they do. Of course they do. The Economist ([https://www.economist.com/interactive/middle-east-and-africa/2025/06/13/tracking-the-israel-iran-war link]) has a "Timeline of the Conflict". It goes like this (dates unchanged, text paraphrase for concision): '''October 7th 2023''': Hamas attacked Israel, ... rocket fire from Iranian proxies including Hizbullah; '''April 1st 2024''': Israel bombed Iran's embassy in Damascus, ...; '''April 13th 2024''': Iran fired over 300 drones and missiles at Israel, with Israel striking an Isfahan air base five nights later without public comment; '''July 31st 2024''': A bomb killed Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in a Tehran tea house; '''September 17th 2024''': Israel detonated thousands of Hizbullah pagers across Lebanon and Syria, killing leader Hassan Nasrallah in a Beirut strike ten days later; '''October 1st 2024''': Iran fired around 200 ballistic missiles at Israel; '''October 26th 2024''': Israel launched its first officially acknowledged attack on Iran, striking air-defense facilities and munitions factories in three provinces while avoiding nuclear sites and oil-export terminals; '''April 12th 2025''': US-Iran nuclear talks began post-Trump's return, making little progress; '''June 12th 2025''': IAEA censured Iran for insufficient information on undeclared nuclear material/facilities; '''June 13th 2025''': Israel launched "Operation Rising Lion" against Iran's nuclear/military facilities and military leaders/nuclear experts, prompting ~100 retaliatory Iranian drones. —[[User talk:Alalch E.|Alalch E.]] 21:06, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support''' All flare-ups are interlinked to the same political narrative on both sides. Further discussion over whether or not it is a war should also take place. [[User:Psywave|Psywave]] ([[User talk:Psywave|talk]]) 21:21, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong Support''' [[Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)]] as it might continue past 2025 [[Special:Contributions/2600:4809:98B2:3700:E05E:AB23:56C5:FCE1|2600:4809:98B2:3700:E05E:AB23:56C5:FCE1]] ([[User talk:2600:4809:98B2:3700:E05E:AB23:56C5:FCE1|talk]]) 01:11, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
::Are we allowing one anonymous edit in Wikipedia to make such decisions it should we strike it through? With regards, [[User:Oleg Yunakov|<span style="font-family:Segoe Script;">Oleg Y.</span>]] ([[User talk:Oleg Yunakov|talk]]) 15:24, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Speedy move'''. [[User:Triggerhippie4|Triggerhippie4]] ([[User talk:Triggerhippie4|talk]]) 11:55, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' to move it under [[Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)]] as suggested above. --[[User:Cyclopia|<span style="font-size:small;color:seagreen">cyclopia</span>]][[User talk:Cyclopia|<span style="color:red"><sup>speak!</sup></span>]] 12:47, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong support''' to move to either [[Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)]] or [[Iran–Israel war]]. The current article name is now outdated due to this week's events. [[User:GWA88|GWA88]] ([[User talk:GWA88|talk]]) 15:34, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Speedy Move''' to [[Iran–Israel war (2024–present)]] it has clearly become an all-out war with Israel killing Iranian commanders and bombing oil fields and Iran has literally declared it a declaration of war so it is clearly now not just a conflict but an all-out war. [[Special:Contributions/2600:4809:98B2:3700:4145:58CF:8EED:D2E6|2600:4809:98B2:3700:4145:58CF:8EED:D2E6]] ([[User talk:2600:4809:98B2:3700:4145:58CF:8EED:D2E6|talk]]) 15:50, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' I don’t understand what people above are saying. 
:The two events in 2024 were tit-for-tat limited attacks, which used to constitute as a direct conflict at that time, but that has changed with the explosion of this conflict (that could eventually evolve to what could be called a prolonged war, as slowly many sources are starting to use the term “Iran-Israel war”)
:'''''My proposal''''': 
:1. Move [[2024 Iran-Israel conflict]] —> [[2024 Iran-Israel strikes]] '''''OR''''' [[2024 Iran-Israel tensions]] since these events were heavily minuscule & news sources say so
:2. Move [[June 2025 Israeli strikes on Iran]] —> [[2025 Iran-Israel conflict]] [[User:Idk2716639|Idk2716639]] ([[User talk:Idk2716639|talk]]) 17:08, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
::To summarize my proposal: Both '''''2024 tit-for-tat attacks ''''' were separate, although closely related attacks, that were very limited. Whereas, '''''The recent escalation''''' is an actual conflict. (or maybe war, but that’s another discussion. requires some waiting to see how it evolves.) [[User:Idk2716639|Idk2716639]] ([[User talk:Idk2716639|talk]]) 17:11, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
::*Sure, sure, this "recent escalation" (everything that has ever happened in this conflict since forever has only ever been an "escalation") is the "actual" conflict whereas the destruction of Iranian air defenses was non-actual conflict and completely unrelated to what was to come. —[[User talk:Alalch E.|Alalch E.]] 18:59, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
::::Using this specific logic, should we merge the article for [[Iraqi no-fly zones conflict|Iraqi no fly zones conflict]] with the [[Iraq War]]? Or perhaps even merge both with the [[Gulf War]] since they were continuations of each other? Just like how these separate, yet cyclical, events have their own separate articles, this one should too. Israel and iran launched only limited & interrupted attacks on each other in 2024. And now, they’re fighting an all out war/conflict with over 400 killed in just 2 days according to the Associated Press [[User:Idk2716639|Idk2716639]] ([[User talk:Idk2716639|talk]]) 19:06, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
::*A very unwieldy shape, that. The worst of all choices, for sure. Let's stay the course; the discussion seems to be faring well. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 15:34, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
::::The discussion wants to merge both small attacks in 2024 with this large conflict. That’s not correct though. This is a separate full blown conflict. The events of 2024 were initially called a conflict but now are seen as separate yet connected small clashes. [[User:Idk2716639|Idk2716639]] ([[User talk:Idk2716639|talk]]) 16:39, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Everything you claim ("small attacks"; "large conflict"; "full blown"; etc) are your [[WP:OR|own personal takes]] on the issue. Whether you are right or not is neither relevant here nor subject to debate. We need [[WP:RS|sources]] that [[WP:V|use]] precisely such assessments. No reliable source has suggested there has been a cessation of hostilities in this conflict. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 20:57, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::They are not my personal opinions you are wrong. Both attacks in 2024 do not exceeed a dozen deaths combined, and were interrupted timed attacks. This one is a full blown conflict (perhaps even a war at this point, that’s another conversation though), and the uninterrupted fighting the past 5 days and very heavy casualties proves it. All sources agree with it. Google “iran israel conflict” and “iran israel war” It’s like a small military clash occurring between 2 countries killing 6 people and all of a sudden it’s described a “conflict” [[User:Idk2716639|Idk2716639]] ([[User talk:Idk2716639|talk]]) 22:53, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I am starting to agree with @[[User:Idk2716639|Idk2716639]] and am considering changing my vote. With the articles for both strikes seemingly preparing for a merger, I believe the best course for <u>this</u> article is to keep its title now and eliminate any connections with the current conflict/war occurring. A pause in the tensions should be established amongst readers, especially for events that differ immensely in scale. [[User:Vataxevader|Vataxevader]] ([[User talk:Vataxevader|talk]]) 04:17, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong support change to Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)''' this is the format used in other articles like [[Sudanese civil war (2023–present)]] and [[Myanmar civil war (2021–present)]] where there are multiple conflicts with that same name or in that category so the year is also included [[User:Denninithan|Denninithan]] ([[User talk:Denninithan|talk]]) 17:17, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
::Just a comment: I don’t see why we should connect the two 2024 limited attacks, that have killed less than a couple dozen people in total combined, to this massive uninterrupted conflict. [[User:Idk2716639|Idk2716639]] ([[User talk:Idk2716639|talk]]) 18:02, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support and Speedy move''' to [[Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)]] as [[Israel – Iran war]] is already an article [[Special:Contributions/2600:4040:A300:BD00:3B67:FD88:A2B8:19F6|2600:4040:A300:BD00:3B67:FD88:A2B8:19F6]] ([[User talk:2600:4040:A300:BD00:3B67:FD88:A2B8:19F6|talk]]) 20:54, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
* '''Support''', for what should be obvious reasons, as the conflict has extended all the way into June 2025, with no immediate end in site. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 21:56, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
* (''nominator'') '''Nominator's post festum comment''': I am just noting that I have started this RM with "2024–2025 Iran–Israel conflict" as the indicated target, but I prefer [[Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)]] to that, and believe that the closer could apply [[WP:OTHEROPTIONS]] to find consensus for the latter ({{tq|the closer should pick the best title of the options available}}). This is not to say that I do not support "2024–2025 Iran–Israel conflict" anymore, but I believe "Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)" to be incrementally better (I have already commented about this above ... it's a minor stylistic difference anyways). —[[User talk:Alalch E.|Alalch E.]] 22:23, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
:*Thanx.  The down side to ''Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)'' as a title is that if the war ends in 2025, then the term "present" one and more years from now will be misleading. Best to confine it to 2024-2025. If the war extends into 2026, then the title  can be moved to indicate that year in due coarse. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 00:27, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Disagree; if you put the ending year there it implies that the event has already ended. My take is to leave it as '''"Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)"''' as suggested. A new move can be made to change "present" to the ending year when the conflict ends, whether that be 2025 or 2026 or beyond. [[Special:Contributions/119.74.188.226|119.74.188.226]] ([[User talk:119.74.188.226|talk]]) 11:12, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
::::"Leave it as..."? The title never included "present" in the first place.. Many things can be implied.  The current title more than suggests that the war was confined to 2024. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 19:57, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

:*Agree. And it's not a "minor stylistic difference" at all. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 12:13, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Comment''', I believe there is now a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for a move to [[Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)]] now? [[User:GWA88|GWA88]] ([[User talk:GWA88|talk]]) 13:10, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
::Please review the voting. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 16:45, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
::I think we’d have to wait 5 more days according to wikipedia rules, unless that’s not the rule. [[User:Idk2716639|Idk2716639]] ([[User talk:Idk2716639|talk]]) 15:13, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
::Too early for that. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 15:34, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' — (I've already voted)  &nbsp;There is next to no consensus for a move to 2024-present, but a strong consensus for 2024-2025, per the nomination.  To reiterate: The down side to ''Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)'' as a title is that if the war ends in 2025, then the term "present" one and more years from now will be misleading. Best to confine it to 2024-2025. If the war extends into 2026, then the title  can be moved to indicate that year in due coarse. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 16:45, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
*:Why the rush? If the war ends this year (extremely likely) then move it to Iran-Israel conflict (2024–2025). Done! [[User:Idk2716639|Idk2716639]] ([[User talk:Idk2716639|talk]]) 18:22, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Well, if we were in the first month of 2025 I would tend to agree, but here we are, half way through June and there doesn't seem to be any immediate end in sight. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 19:08, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support change to Iran–Israel conflict (2024–present)''', as it's undoubtedly the better option. [[User:AimanAbir18plus|AimanAbir18plus]] ([[User talk:AimanAbir18plus|talk]]) 10:37, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

:'''Support''' - As per nomination. [[User:Thegreatrebellion|Thegreatrebellion]] ([[User talk:Thegreatrebellion|talk]]) 12:49, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
:'''Oppose'''.  Covers the events in 2024 only.  The continuation/escalation from June 2025 is at [[Iran–Israel War]]. '''--[[User:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:red;;">wooden</span>]][[User talk:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:blue;;">superman</span>]]''' 13:26, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. The third phase (2025) is already being covered at [[Iran–Israel War]]. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 13:30, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

:'''Strong support''' [[User:Ahammed Saad|Ahammed Saad]] ([[User talk:Ahammed Saad|talk]]) 19:12, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Weak Oppose''' The page [[Iran-Israel War]] appears to cover this exact topic. This page focuses on the events of 2024, which are distinct from what just occurred in 2025. At the same time, it was this conflict that led into that war, so I understand the argument for the first half of 2025 being included in this article. [[User:PickleG13|PickleG13]] ([[User talk:PickleG13|talk]]) 23:21, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

*'''Strong oppose; this article should focus on 2024 exclusively''' – The 2024 strikes are covered by this article, the 2025 conflict is a massive escalation that is [[Iran-Israel War|covered by its own article]]. [[User:Nice4What|Nice4What]] ([[User talk:Nice4What|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Nice4What|contribs]]) – <small>([[Help:Notifications/Thanks|Thanks]] <span style="color:#4dac8b;">♥</span>)</small> 23:49, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
::"Skirmishes"?? A skirmish usually involves a minor confrontation between a handful of troops. Please review the lede..  -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 02:23, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
:::I have edited my message since it seems to have offended you. No need to tell me to "review the lede" though, thank you! [[User:Nice4What|Nice4What]] ([[User talk:Nice4What|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Nice4What|contribs]]) – <small>([[Help:Notifications/Thanks|Thanks]] <span style="color:#4dac8b;">♥</span>)</small> 13:21, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Strong oppose''' this article is about the 2024 conflict, which happened when Israel attacked Iran's consulate in Damascus, and then assassinated Ismail Haniyeh, Hassan Nasrallah etc. The 2025 conflict is related to the [[Iran's nuclear program]] and is entirely different from the 2024 conflict. And now this proposal is useless as the [[Iran–Israel War]] covers the 2025 crisis. [[User:FujaFula|FujaFula]] ([[User talk:FujaFula|talk]]) 02:02, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
::Battles that occur in any one war are of course somewhat different in their objective(s), but that by itself is no basis to maintain that they are not part of the same ongoing conflict. You seem to be suggesting that the incidents in question have no central common theme. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 02:23, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

*'''Support''', with the caveat that article coverage be extended to recent events in 2025. I would also support some sort of merger with [[Iran-Israel War]], either at that namespace or this one. --[[User:Katangais|<span style="color:#80461B;font-family:cursive" >'''''Katan'''''</span><span style="color:#80461B;font-family:cursive">'''''gais'''''</span>]] [[User talk:Katangais|(talk)]] 02:21, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

* '''Strong oppose''', 2024 and 2025 conflicts are separate events caused by distinct reasons. The 2025 conflict is already covered by the [[Iran–Israel War]] article, which did not exist when this proposal was first made. [[User:2018rebel|2018rebel]] 02:51, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
:::All battles are "separate" in any given conflict, but their overall core objectives are the same, i.e. to neutralize and keep the ''present'' enemy at bay. The "separate" events in question are intimately connected.  -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 03:59, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
::::"To neutralize and keep the present enemy at bay" is very broad, and maybe a reliable source is needed that states that the "core objectives are the same" and that they are "intimately connected". The 2025 war has a strong emphasis on Iran's nuclear program, whereas 2024 events were more closely tied to the spillover of the [[Gaza war]]. [[User:Nice4What|Nice4What]] ([[User talk:Nice4What|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Nice4What|contribs]]) – <small>([[Help:Notifications/Thanks|Thanks]] <span style="color:#4dac8b;">♥</span>)</small> 13:26, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::The sum total of events in virtually any war are of course referred to in a broad sense, but nonetheless, involve the death and destruction caused by military action. Iran's first strike at Israel in 2024 involved the planning of high ranking military and intelligence officials, the most prominent of whom were killed in Israel's latest actions. The intelligence gathering and planning to locate these officials was long since in the works, and Iran's 2024 attack on Israel, involving hundreds of missiles and drones, made that effort all the more urgent. The connection between the events in 2024 with those in 2025 are quite clear. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]) 17:06, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:'''Oppose''' for now. @[[User:Basque mapping|Basque mapping]]'s proposal of eventually moving to something along the lines of ''Prelude to the Iran–Israel war'' seems more appropriate than arbitrarily subjugating the Iran–Israel war as a subtopic of the "2024–2025 Iran–Israel conflict", which might be considered synthesis. But for the moment, it is too soon to consider any moves, as we don't how significant the current war is going to be (maybe it turn outs be a brief agitation, and then we can revisit things as appropriate). [[User:9ninety|9ninety]] ([[User talk:9ninety|talk]]) 18:27, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support move to [[Prelude to the Iran–Israel war]]''': per {{Re|Basque mapping|p=}} and {{Re|9ninety|p=}}. This aligns with titles of other articles that are about periods of buildup before wars and preceding crises. Of course, if this ongoing conflict ends soon and its article is ultimately retitled as "[[2025 Iran–Israel conflict]]" or similar, then the title of this page could also be reconsidered. –'''[[User:Gluonz|<span style="color:#FFF;text-shadow:0px 0px 4px #000,0px 0px 4px #000">Gluonz</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Gluonz|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Gluonz|contribs]]</sup>''' 20:00, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
* '''Strong oppose''', 2024 and 2025 conflicts are separate events caused by distinct reasons and the 2025 conflict is already covered by the [[Iran–Israel War]]. [[User:Chronus|Chronus]] ([[User talk:Chronus|talk]]) 21:42, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

'''Food for thought :'''<br>'''<big>{{*}}</big>''' [https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250615-israel-s-strikes-on-iran-were-years-in-the-making-analysts Israel's strikes on Iran were years in the making: analysts  — Paris (AFP) ]<br>'''<big>{{*}}</big>''' [https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/by-fusing-intelligence-and-special-operations-israels-strikes-on-iran-are-a-lesson-in-strategic-surprise/ By fusing intelligence and special operations, Israel’s strikes on Iran are a lesson in strategic surprise — 2025 Atlantic Council]<br>-- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]])
<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
</div><div style="clear:both;" class=></div>

== Change title to Iran-Israel war ==

might be a little early but Iran has indicated they consider Israel's operation a direct declaration of war. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/jun/13/israel-iran-strikes-defence-minister-tehran-middle-east-live [[User:Fakeloser|Fakeloser]] ([[User talk:Fakeloser|talk]]) 11:42, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
*Indeed, changing the title to war is too early. I hope it won't be necessary. [[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] ([[User talk:Lova Falk|talk]]) 13:55, 13 June 2025 (UTC)
::We already have such an article. See [[Israel – Iran war]] [[User:Spiderone|<span style="color: #996600">Spiderone</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Spiderone|<span style="color:brown">(Talk to Spider)</span>]]</sup> 17:53, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*Agree. It’s a war confirmed by both sides. [[Special:Contributions/2603:7001:7340:33:7DA4:7271:631C:A7AB|2603:7001:7340:33:7DA4:7271:631C:A7AB]] ([[User talk:2603:7001:7340:33:7DA4:7271:631C:A7AB|talk]]) 02:36, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
*Did you miss the (properly established) discussion just above? -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 15:36, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
*i mean india & pakistan did the same thing yet it wasn't considered a war [[User:Nyxtify|Nyxtify]] ([[User talk:Nyxtify|talk]]) 19:36, 16 June 2025 (UTC)


:Should the article be named as [[2024 Iran–Israel war]]? @[[User:Fakeloser|Fakeloser]] @[[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] @[[User:Nyxtify|Nyxtify]] @[[User:Spiderone|Spiderone]] @[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] [[User:Web-julio|Web-julio]] ([[User talk:Web-julio|talk]]) 00:25, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

:*Wars involve major military attacks involving large scale destruction and death.The idea of "conflict" began in the Korean War, where the government and media referred to it as a "police action", before that was seen as a milk toast attempt at public appeasement and it was rightly referred to as a 'war'. This sort of phraseology is often employed  when it involves a controversial issue. -- [[User:Gwillhickers|''Gwillhickers'']] ([[User talk:Gwillhickers |talk]]).
:*I am [[WP:TOOSOON|still]] in support of terms such as "attack" or "conflict." The media's reports are not yet settling on a single term; one could reasonably speculate that "war" happens, for most media, only when ground troops get involved. Bombing, it seems, however heavy, will not do. E.g. Most Serbian sources would claim that America waged war against their country back in 1999. Yet, in Wikipedia, we have [[NATO bombing of Yugoslavia]]. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 11:44, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
:*This conflict has not been widely called a war, so I would not be in favour of it. [[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] ([[User talk:Lova Falk|talk]]) 14:37, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 June 2025 ==

{{edit extended-protected|2024 Iran–Israel conflict|answered=yes}}
Please remove mentions of the 2025 conflict, which were disruptively added by someone without any discussion. The 2024 conflict was related to Israel's attack on Iranian consulate in Syria and the assassinations of Ismail Haniyeh and Hassan Nasrallah. The 2025 conflict is entirely different and unrelated to the 2024 conflict, as it was based upon Iran's nuclear program. Please remove the June 2025 part to the [[June 2025 Israeli strikes on Iran]] article. [[User:FujaFula|FujaFula]] ([[User talk:FujaFula|talk]]) 17:49, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

*That is ridiculous  —[[User talk:Alalch E.|Alalch E.]] 21:14, 14 June 2025 (UTC)
::[[File:X mark.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now''': please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests#Planning a request|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit extended-protected}} template.<!-- Template:EEp --> Clear consensus would be needed for a such a large-scale change to the article. [[User:Day Creature|Day Creature]] ([[User talk:Day Creature|talk]]) 01:26, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

*A ridiculous suggestion, one of whose collateral damages would be the introduction of [[WP:NPOV|non-neutral]] and [[WP:OR|arbitrary]] notions into the text -- which, so far, fares rather well, considering the controversial nature of its subject. -[[User:The Gnome|The Gnome]] ([[User talk:The Gnome|talk]]) 15:39, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

==Starting sentence in 2025 war==
The first sentence in this subsection is: "On 13 June 2025, the conflict escalated into the armed conflict between Iran and the Houthis against Israel and the United States, when Israel launched a surprise attack targeting key Iranian military and nuclear facilities." Ten years from now, with readers who may have been children in 2025, this first sentence creates a false impression of this war. I will change this into: "On 13 June 2025, the conflict escalated into the armed conflict between Israel and Iran, when Israel launched a surprise attack targeting key Iranian military and nuclear facilities." The later involvement of the Houthis and the US is then mentioned in the rest of the section. [[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] ([[User talk:Lova Falk|talk]]) 15:25, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

== Merge proposal ==

Merge [[Iranian seizure of the MSC Aries]] into [[2024 Iran–Israel conflict]]. The ship's seizure was one of several escalations in the lead up to the wider hostilities of the 2024 Iran–Israel conflict. As such, it derives much of its coverage and importance from its role within that broader cycle of escalation. Covering it within the broader conflict would improve contextual coverage and avoid fragmenting closely related developments across multiple pages. This is not to say that the seizure does not satisfy [[WP:NEVENT]], but per [[WP:NOPAGE]], notability alone does not require a standalone article. [[WP:PAGELENGTH]] is not a concern here. [[User:Longhornsg|Longhornsg]] ([[User talk:Longhornsg|talk]]) 01:27, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

:'''Support''', nothing in the former article that can't be adequately covered in the latter, and it's preferable to cover the entire sequence of events in one place when there aren't size concerns. '''[[User:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color:#0c4709">Thebiguglyalien</span>]]''' ([[User talk:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color:#472c09">talk</span>]]) 04:58, 17 March 2026 (UTC)
:'''Support''' per nom. [[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] ([[User talk:Lova Falk|talk]]) 11:49, 17 March 2026 (UTC)