Editing Talk:Kunal Kamra (section)

== Incident on Indigo flight ==

This [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/kunal-kamra-flight-ban-what-gets-you-on-a-no-fly-list/ban-on-comedian-kunal-kamra/slideshow/73759924.cms source] uses "allegedly heckling" (so if we want to quote the source accurately we should include "allegedly"). This [https://gulfnews.com/entertainment/bollywood/anurag-kashyap-refuses-to-fly-indigo-to-support-comedian-kunal-kamra-1.1580823452362 source] says he "unleashed a barrage of questions on him" and uses the word "diatribe".This [https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kunal-kamra-barred-from-flying-indigo-for-6-months/article30677306.ece source] uses the word "incident". 

I think the original wording "confronted" is a good summary of all the sources. [[User:Lard Almighty|Lard Almighty]] ([[User talk:Lard Almighty|talk]]) 13:49, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
: Who are "we"? Wikipedia account must be used by an individual not an organization. Can you clarify your edit summary? Use what most RS are using or I will file a dispute resolution. I assume you're are watching this page. // Signature 16:39, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
:::"We" are Wikipedians. We follow Wikipedia policies. In this case there is not one word that the majority of sources use. There is a variety of words used by the sources as noted above. Confronted is a good [[WP:NPOV]] summary of what the various sources say. [[User:Lard Almighty|Lard Almighty]] ([[User talk:Lard Almighty|talk]]) 16:46, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
: Disagreed, most sources use heckled. // [[User:Eatcha|Signature]] 16:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
:::Can you post all the links from different sources that use heckled please? I have listed the sources that I can find above, including one that uses "allegedly heckled" and three others that use different words. Where are the other sources that use heckled? Thank you. [[User:Lard Almighty|Lard Almighty]] ([[User talk:Lard Almighty|talk]]) 16:51, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

*https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/comedian-india-airline-ban-kunal-kamra-arnab-goswami-heckle-video-a9308211.html

*https://qz.com/india/1792692/kunal-kamra-heckles-arnab-goswami-on-indigo-riles-hardeep-puri/

*https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/vistara-bans-comedian-kunal-kamra-for-heckling-arnab-goswami-on-indigo-flight-5480091.htm

*https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/delhi-high-court-says-kunal-kamra-heckling-editor-on-flight-is-behaviour-that-cant-be-permitted-news-2197847

*https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2020/02/09/arnab-goswami-was-watching-netflix-when-kunal-kamra-was-heckling-him.html

*https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/arnab-heckling-incident-after-indigo-air-india-spicejet-suspends-kunal-kamra/articleshow/73726336.cms?from=mdr

*https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/people/article/3048290/indian-comedian-kunal-kamra-banned-indigo-air-india-after-heckling

*https://www.firstpost.com/india/kunal-kamra-did-nothing-wrong-by-heckling-arnab-goswami-even-though-it-isnt-a-significant-act-of-subversion-7970481.html

*https://www.livemint.com/news/india/kunal-kamra-already-knows-what-to-do-next-as-govt-allows-in-flight-wi-fi-services-11583162474137.html

*https://www.scoopwhoop.com/news/now-vistara-bans-kunal-kamra-from-flying-for-heckling-arnab/

*https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/vistara-imposes-travel-ban-on-stand-up-comedian-kunal-kamra-for-heckling-tv-anchor-on-indigo-flight-54936

*https://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-for-heckling-journalist-on-indigo-flight-in-january-kunal-kamra-banned-from-flying-air-vistara-till-april-27-2817139

*https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/vistara-bans-kunal-karma-from-flying-till-april-27-for-heckling-journalist-on-indigo-flight/story-rcnhxsSc1UduCbPD7enpfO.html

*https://www.thestatesman.com/india/delhi-hc-declines-kunal-kamra-plea-challenging-flying-ban-heckling-scribe-1502867925.html

*https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/bengaluru/2020/feb/01/kunal-kamra-flying-ban-on-air-heckling-leaves-bengaluru-comedians-divided-2097259.html

*https://www.news18.com/news/india/vistara-imposes-travel-ban-on-kunal-kamra-over-heckling-of-tv-anchor-on-indigo-flight-2536331.html

*https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkezy7/indian-comedian-banned-from-four-airlines-for-heckling-right-wing-tv-anchor

:@{{ping|Lard Almighty}} is it enough?  // [[User:Eatcha|Signature]] 17:09, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

::I still think that "heckling" is not [[WP:NPOV]] and this is a [[WP:BLP]] so we have to be careful. I would be OK with "allegedly heckling", in quotes to show that we are directly quoting some of the sources. [[User:Lard Almighty|Lard Almighty]] ([[User talk:Lard Almighty|talk]]) 17:11, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
::: Thanks. // [[User:Eatcha|Signature]] 17:26, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
::::I don't see how saying ''he heckled'' is an NPOV issue when those sources clearly categorically state that he did. If anything, the quotations unduly cast doubt on what the reliable sources say is true, so in a way not only act as [[MOS:WEASEL]], but generally cast factually incorrect doubt on the incident. <span style="border:solid 2px black; padding:1px 0px 0px 3px; font: 120% Trebuchet MS;"><b>[[User:Levixius|<span style="color:#039a9b;">LΞVIXIUS</span>]]</b><span style="background-color: #039a9b;">[[User_talk:Levixius|&#128172;]]</span></span> 18:11, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::Some sources use the word, others don't. The definition of heckle (according to Mirriam Webster is "to harass and try to disconcert with questions, challenges, or gibes.". That definitely has negative connotations that a word like "confront" (to face especially in challenge) does not, while still describing what Kamra did. I would be happy to drop the quotes and say allegedly heckled or simply confronted, but that would require further consensus. I would not be happy with use heckled without the word allegedly because of the word's negative connotations. [[User:Lard Almighty|Lard Almighty]] ([[User talk:Lard Almighty|talk]]) 06:46, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::<blockquote>The omission of the word from some sources isn't the source of the word, the usage of the word is. The negative connotation of the word does not have any bearing on its usage in Wikipedia and the pursuance of [[WP:NPOV]], the only thing that matters is that we have over dozens of Reliable News sources '''''categorically stating''''' that he heckled. <span style="border:solid 2px black; padding:1px 0px 0px 3px; font: 120% Trebuchet MS;"><b>[[User:Levixius|<span style="color:#039a9b;">LΞVIXIUS</span>]]</b><span style="background-color: #039a9b;">[[User_talk:Levixius|&#128172;]]</span></span> 00:09, 25 July 2021 (UTC)</blockquote>
::::::::There is a difference between quoting a source and saying something in Wikivoice. Especially when dealing with a controversial [[WP:BLP]], and especially where sources differ about an allegation, we have to be careful about doing the latter. Summarising what the range of sources say (e.g. by using a word like confronted) is probably the best course of action, but if we are going to use a word that has negative connotations to describe the event we should [[Wikipedia:Quotations#Recommended_use|put the words in quotes]] to indicate that we are quoting directly from the sources and that ''Wikipedia itself is not making the allegation''. [[User:Lard Almighty|Lard Almighty]] ([[User talk:Lard Almighty|talk]]) 06:01, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::Multiple Reliable sources categorically say he heckled, there exists no question on whether he heckled or not. Use what the Reliable Sources say, even if it paints your client in a negative manner, that's what they say. Some sources saying he allegedly heckled and others categorically stating he heckled is not a disagreement in sources. Like the other user said, this will go into dispute resolution if you don't relent. Also there's no consensus, so please stop edit warring until you manage to get one. Also lets not forget that your usage of quotations reek of [[Irony punctuations]] which is again a MOS:Weasel violation. <span style="border:solid 2px black; padding:1px 0px 0px 3px; font: 120% Trebuchet MS;"><b>[[User:Levixius|<span style="color:#039a9b;">LΞVIXIUS</span>]]</b><span style="background-color: #039a9b;">[[User_talk:Levixius|&#128172;]]</span></span> 05:44, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
::::::::::An multiple reliable sources don't use heckled, or use other words as well. It is a controversial word, and so we need to be careful. It is also an allegation. He has neither been charged nor convicted of any offence. So we need to be very careful about stating he heckled ''in Wikivoice''. I quoted the policy that supports the use of quotations. This is a highly controversial BLP, with editors on both sides trying to introduce their POV. Kamra is not "my client". In fact I had never heard of him until this article triggered my vandalism filter. Please do not cast aspersions, as it weakens your case. [[User:Lard Almighty|Lard Almighty]] ([[User talk:Lard Almighty|talk]]) 05:59, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
:::::::::::I've said it before, the omission of facts is not a fact to be inferred. His having heckled is not of controversy, if it is, please provide reliable sources that explicitly state that he didn't heckle, or that his having heckled is a question at all. His having not being charged or convicted of any offence related to this is also not related. (He has been suspended by multiple airlines for his actions, but even that is not relevant) It's not Wikipedia that is alleging something when it has been clearly stated in RS. <span style="border:solid 2px black; padding:1px 0px 0px 3px; font: 120% Trebuchet MS;"><b>[[User:Levixius|<span style="color:#039a9b;">LΞVIXIUS</span>]]</b><span style="background-color: #039a9b;">[[User_talk:Levixius|&#128172;]]</span></span> 06:08, 26 July 2021 (UTC)