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    Need input on whether or not an excerpt is WP:UNDUE

    [edit source]

    There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:Sangh Parivar#Violation of WP:LABEL in the Lead (The discussion was initiated by a sock but later broadened after the original issue was resolved), about whether a section should be included in the article on the Sangh Parivar, over the classification of the organization as fascist by scholars and academics. In the course of this dispute, an editor added an excerpt from the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the paramilitary which originally founded the Sangh Parivar, where an argument is made by a scholar against the classification of the RSS as fascist. However, neither the excerpt nor its sources mention the Sangh Parivar, which is why I consider the addition WP:UNDUE and a WP:COATRACK. The editor has since said they will not participate further in the discussion, so I have come here seeking a resolution. — EarthDude (Talk) 19:44, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

    For editors, I am pasting the disputed excerpt here, as the discussion at the talk page of the Sangh Parivar might be too long to get through:

    Jaffrelot argues that although the RSS, with its paramilitary style of functioning and its emphasis on discipline, has sometimes been seen as "an Indian version of fascism",[1] the "RSS's ideology treats society as an organism with a secular spirit, which is implanted not so much in the race as in a socio-cultural system and which will be regenerated over the course of time by patient work at the grassroots".[2] He argues that Golwalkar's ideology shared, with Nazism, an emphasis on ethnic homogeneity[3] but that the "ideology of the RSS did not develop a theory of the state and the race, a crucial element in European nationalisms: Nazism and Fascism"[1] and that, according to Jaffrelot, RSS leaders were interested in Hindu cultural homogeneity as opposed to racial sameness.[4]

    — EarthDude (Talk) 12:54, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
    @EarthDude: You brought this here knowing that there wasn't any consensus for the removal at the article's Talk page. I see that this was also taken to WP:ORN where similarly no one was convinced either. To then go ahead and make this unilateral edit with the edit summary reading [1] "Per talk, this has no support". An editor does not unilateraly decide this, if anything the insertion of the section itself has had more vocal and direct opposition at the Talk page. Want to seek a WP:3O go ahead but repeatedly vying to enforce a unilateral removal by edit warring over this is not going to happen. Gotitbro (talk) 19:50, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
    What are you even talking about? I have simply asked for third party opinions on the dispute so that it can be resolved. I had originally brought it to ORN due to a PNG misunderstanding which was later corrected, but I had a fairly civil discussion with the only other editor engaged in the noticeboard discussion, and the editor suggested I take it here and wished me luck in finding a resolution. "You brought this here knowing that there wasn't any consensus", "I see that this was also taken to WP:ORN where similarly no one was convinced either", "repeatedly vying to enforce a unilateral removal"; do you not know about WP:AGF, WP:CIVIL, or WP:FOC, or are you willfully ignorant of them? Of course, I will come for third party opinions when a dispute resolution has not been reached between two editors. How is that a negative? My inclusion of the section has not had "more vocal and direct opposition" than your inclusion of the excerpt, because the only other editor who engaged in the discussion, aside from the sock, simply suggested for me to resolve the dispute on the talk page (which I tried to follow) and also against your excerpt because it did not speak of the Sangh Parivar. I get that I may have been hasty in the revert, but I only did it because you explicitly stated you won't engage further in the discussion and because I got no input here. — EarthDude (Talk) 20:53, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
    None of the policies you cite impinge on what was said. The rest of your comment simply means there is no consensus for your edits.
    I see the WP:POINTy insertion of NPOV hatnotes but will not be dithering over that for now. Gotitbro (talk) 21:10, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
    So simply adding a maintenance tag is disruptive now? — EarthDude (Talk) 21:26, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
    Just left a note on the talk page. May I suggest opening an RFC? Although I’m fairly new here, it seems to be one of the most common and effective ways to help resolve content disputes. If you’d like, I can open one. Coffeeurbanite (talk) 21:23, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

    References

    1. ↑ 1.0 1.1 Jaffrelot, Christophe (1996), The Hindu Nationalist Movement and Indian Politics, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, p. 51, ISBN 978-1850653011
    2. ↑ Jaffrelot, Christophe (1996), The Hindu Nationalist Movement and Indian Politics, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, p. 63, ISBN 978-1850653011
    3. ↑ Jaffrelot, Christophe (1996), The Hindu Nationalist Movement and Indian Politics, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, p. 61, ISBN 978-1850653011
    4. ↑ Jaffrelot, Christophe (1996), The Hindu Nationalist Movement and Indian Politics, C. Hurst & Co. Publishers, pp. 56–58, ISBN 978-1850653011

    Need input on whether or not a statement is WP:DUE for the lead paragraph

    [edit source]

    There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:Hindutva#Lead paragraph, on whether or not the statement "Borrowing ideas and concepts from European fascism, the Hindutva movement was affiliated with Italian fascism and Nazism during the interwar period and the Second World War." is WP:DUE for the lead paragraph on the article Hindutva. We request any input from third parties. — EarthDude (Talk) 08:08, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

    Pinging uninvolved editors who might be interested: @Thebiguglyalien @Babysharkboss2 — EarthDude (Talk) 06:37, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

    Dispute regarding sexual misconduct allegations in Spanish politics (2025)

    [edit source]

    I am seeking an outside opinion regarding a series of deletions and accusations of "POV-pushing" by User:Impru20 across several articles related to Spanish politics.

    The core of the dispute involves the article 2025 Spanish Socialist Workers' Party sexual misconduct scandal and related mentions in biographies of figures like Yolanda Díaz and Alberto Núñez Feijóo.

    Background:

    I have been adding information supported by credible English-language media regarding the ongoing scandal (e.g., Reuters, The Guardian). However, User:Impru20 has:

    My Position:

    I have explicitly stated my willingness to:

    • Rename the article for better neutrality.
    • Expand the coverage to include the defense of the accused, police actions, and court rulings.
    • Include similar scandals in other Spanish parties if sourced, though my current research is limited to English-language media.

    The Issue:

    I believe that removing content supported by reliable sources from the pages of government and opposition leaders—who are actively commenting on a scandal that media outlets describe as "shaking" the PSOE—is not justified. While I acknowledge that my addition to the "Sexual harassment" general article was misplaced (and it has been removed), the deletions on political pages appear to suppress relevant, sourced information.

    Request:

    I would like to ask the community to evaluate whether including these well-sourced developments constitutes "POV-pushing," and whether the systematic removal of this information aligns with Wikipedia’s NPOV policies.

    Evidence (Diffs):

    -- Tobby72 (talk) 12:10, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

    • Important context is being left out by the above editor:
    1) Chicken or the egg?: They conducted most of the conflicting edits mentioned above after the AfD on the aforementioned article was filled, not before (which one could think by reading their "Background" section). The AfD was not a result of them "adding information supported by credible English-language media regarding the ongoing scandal"; rather, and following the AfD's opening, the above editor attempted to enforce links to that article and some of its contents into other articles on topics without any direct and/or relevant connection to this issue (such as sexual harassment, diff, then reverted by me; Alberto Núñez Feijóo, diff, then reverted; Yolanda Díaz, diff, then reverted; Adriana Lastra, diff, then reverted; José Ramón Gómez Besteiro, diff, then partially reverted; and others), while presenting the topic in an obviously disparaging, negative light towards a political party and members of a government without any kind of balance that the sources themselves do include.
    2) Reasons for the proposed AfD: These are explained in full where due (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2025 Spanish Socialist Workers' Party sexual misconduct scandal, as well as Talk:2025 Spanish Socialist Workers' Party sexual misconduct scandal), though they involve:
    • A lack of "enduring historical significance" or "significant lasting effect" as required under WP:EVENTCRITERIA (most particularly, a lack of WP:LASTING and WP:PERSISTENCE); lack of widespread impact, especially if also re-analyzed afterwards (allegations on independent sexual misconduct cases were notable for a few days, but media interest has died down so far, together with some judicial proceedings having been archived, with no relevant follow ups at the moment);
    • As per WP:VNOT and WP:NOTNEWS, the fact that something is verifiable does not mean that it is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia, much less to justify a stand-alone article;
    • The article constituting a WP:REDUNDANTFORK (as the topic is already included at Premiership of Pedro Sánchez#Scandals and, to a lesser degree, at Pedro Sánchez#Scandals, Spanish Socialist Workers' Party#Sánchez leadership (2014–present) and Next Spanish general election#Background);
    • Serious WP:POVPUSH/WP:UNDUE issues that question whether the purpose of the article itself is to be used as some form of soapbox to overemphasize scandal mongering or gossip directed towards some political party or politicians in particular. This includes:
      • Massive cherrypicking from sources;
      • Excessive weight being given to cases of members of a singular party, as opposed to no mention being made to cases in other parties that are explicitly covered by the provided sources (for example, The Guardian source the above editor does mention, as well as Spanish media [2] [3] [4] [5]);
      • Lack of inclusion of contradicting views (the accused people denying wrongdoings, judicial proceedings being archived, etc.);
      • Entirely unconnected cases (such as the alleged arrangement of meetings with sex workers by another politician and his aide, which has never been connected to the other cases) being thrown into the article's scope to give the impression of a single major scandal affecting one single party rather than individual multi-party allegations briefly covered in the news cycle in Spain; etc.)
      • WP:BLPCRIME issues (culpability of those accused is automatically assumed despite no one being convicted and some cases not even resulting in judicial proceedings, as of yet at least).
    In any case, the article's future is an issue for the AfD to deal with.
    3) Verifiable information vs. cherry-picked information: I have never questioned the reliability or credibility of the provided sources. Rather, I have criticized the above editor's POVish selection of information from those same sources. For example:
    • Their edit at Alberto Núñez Feijóo, in which they openly accused Sánchez of "siding with sexual abusers over victims" in a way that was not even framed like that in the Guardian source they provided and sounded like some form of soapbox to Feijóo (a political rival to Sánchez and his party)'s positions;
    • Their edits at Yolanda Díaz [6] and Adriana Lastra [7], revolving on passing-by "comments" without evidence of subsequent follow ups nor any justification on why these particular comments were relevant to these people's biographies (over other comments these people have made throughout the years on other issues);
    • Their edit at José Ramón Gómez Besteiro had to be reworked because they had created a specific section without any justification why, as well as omitting relevant information (i.e. the accused asserting his innocence), plus the addition of an almost copy-pasted sentence on "the party's political future in the region" that had no relevance there;
    • Some of their edits were entirely misplaced and focused on giving relevance to this issue even within articles where this made no sense: for example, at sexual harassment ([8]), whose scope does not revolve on particular cases in countries and where this was presented as if a conviction or some form of culpability was already established (and directing it at the prime minister of Spain, for some reason). This was so egregious and wrong that they have acknowledged it (for the first time, btw) in this thread.
    And I could go on.
    4) My position vs. the above editor's: It is not true that I have intended to "suppress relevant, sourced information"; my purpose has been to counter the addition of multiple POVish material everywhere and without any coherency. I have said so multiple times (most notably in this discussion). Even at this present point, and despite my extensive comments to them, the above editor still seemingly fails to get the point on what they are doing wrong, being unable or unwilling to admit on the visible one-sided nature of their edits. On top of that, I have always attempted to explain my reverts to their edits in the edit summaries, whereas the above editor has made no attempt to even justify theirs (typically resorting to generic "update" or "add info" summaries, even after they were questioned on their edits' motives).
    5) The above editor's alleged good will: Some of the above editor's claims of good will or apparent lack of knowledge are not coherent with their actions. For example, here they claimed that they "support renaming the article and adding additional information, such as the accused politicians' assertions of innocence, court rulings, or related sexual scandals involving other political parties", and that this was "challenging" for them, as they "don't speak Spanish". Yet this is perfectly stated in The Guardian and other English-language sources they themselves added to multiple articles, and they still made no attempt at introducing this additional info, the accused's assertions of innocence or other cases (and this despite repeated warnings and reverts). At best, they did not fully read the sources they claim to use as a basis; at worst, it is deliberate. The fact that possible criminal acts allegedly committed by living people are being discussed should have introduced an element of extreme care and caution in the above editor's edits, as per BLPCRIME; instead, they have exhibited recklessness in the addition of such info and an apparent intent to add it to as many articles as possible. All of the info they added had a very specific POV, and no attempt was made to either acknowledge or correct this, nor to justify why they introduced it in so many articles.
    My conclusion: All of the above + the fact that this mostly started after the AfD was filled + the above editor's persistence in adding a link to such article in almost every one of their edits, only reinforces the idea that the article itself is being used as some sort of platform to overemphasize scandal mongering or gossip directed towards a political party and/or some politicians in particular. Impru20talk 15:07, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
    Please focus on discussing the article content during conversations, rather than editor conduct, in accordance with WP:FOC.
    @Impru20: claimed: "allegations on independent sexual misconduct cases were notable for a few days, but media interest has died down so far, together with some judicial proceedings having been archived, with no relevant follow-ups at the moment."
    The scandal has actually been ongoing for many months, and the situation is still developing. It is probably being reported in the Spanish media, though I don't speak Spanish. Francisco Salazar, a close ally and aide to Prime Minister Sánchez, resigned in July 2025 following allegations of sexual harassment, which were also reported by foreign media. The media is also linking meetings between Transport Minister José Luis Ábalos and sex workers to the broader PSOE sex scandal.
    The scandal escalated further during 2025, with additional allegations of sexual misconduct against high-ranking PSOE officials and politicians emerging. In December 2025, it was widely reported by foreign mainstream English-language media, citing statements by senior PSOE members, members of the Spanish government—including Prime Minister Sánchez—and leaders of the Spanish opposition. Most of these reactions were deleted from the main article about the scandal (diff), as well as from other articles.
    I would like to remind you that, according to WP:PRESERVE, Wikipedia strongly encourages preserving content rather than deleting it, adhering to the principle that articles should be improved rather than removed, as they are a "work in progress."--Tobby72 (talk) 11:01, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
    Please note that this noticeboard (to which you yourself voluntarily came) is about discussing adherence to WP:NPOV. I discussed article content, as well as concerns on editor's edits adding or removing such content. If you consider that violations of NPOV should not be discussed, please consider adhering to the NPOV policy in your edits :)
    So, in your second paragraph you basically acknowledge that you do not even know whether the scandal is currently being reported in Spanish media, and again come with "I don't speak Spanish" as an excuse? Can you at least provide some examples of ongoing reports in English-language sources, at least? As commented, the "I don't speak Spanish" excuse does not work for you when it comes to explaining why you repeteadly left out key elements from the English sources you yourself provided.
    The rest of your reply does not add anything else of relevance to the discussion and seems like an attempt to WP:GASLIGHT readers from your own actions as have been described (and, again, without the slightlest attempt to acknowledge any wrongdoing from your part, despite many examples having been provided). Please note that PRESERVE encourages preserving "appropriate content", but does not work as a barrier for not touching contested edits. When so regarded, I preserved part of your content while reworking it. When the entire addition of the content was controversial, it was removed. The reasons for the revert of your edit in the main article are explained in the diff you provide: once again, there is no inherent right for your edits to be automatically preserved or kept just because you added them. If these are controversial or contested by others, these can be reverted.
    Finally, you should also understand that, because this noticeboard is about discussing adherence to NPOV, it is not a venue to contest or circumvent an AfD discussion. Impru20talk 11:17, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
    You completely ignored my point that the scandal has been ongoing for months.
    @Impru20:: "Can you at least provide some examples of ongoing reports in English-language sources, at least?"
    Here are a few examples after a few minutes of searching:
    —Spanish rail disaster ramps up pressure on Sánchez , Politico, 28 January 2026.
    —Salazar: “I Have Always Respected My Companions as Women and as Professionals”, Ground News, 5 February 2026
    —Trio of Spanish regional elections spells trouble for Sánchez, Politico, 5 February 2026
    —The PSOE acknowledges that it has not been up to par in handling the complaints against Paco Salazar, Ara, 16 February 2026
    —La Algaba Mayor Under Scrutiny: Sexual Harassment Allegations Spark Political Crisis and Calls for Accountability, Ekhbary, 17 February 2026.
    —Spain's police chief resigns over rape allegations, The Local, 18 February 2026.
    —Spanish govt under fire as police chief quits accused of rape, The Straits Times, 18 February 2026. -- Tobby72 (talk) 23:32, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
    The first block of text reads like LLM generated. User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 00:29, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

    I did not ignore your point: I repeteadly stated that it is not ongoing. I did so above (lack of "enduring historical significance" or "significant lasting effect"; lack of widespread impact, especially if also re-analyzed afterwards (...) but media interest has died down so far, together with some judicial proceedings having been archived, with no relevant follow ups at the moment), at Talk:2025 Spanish Socialist Workers' Party sexual misconduct scandal#Removal of "Reactions and impact" section and proposed AfD (where I basically stated the same) and at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2025 Spanish Socialist Workers' Party sexual misconduct scandal (I literally told you that What is the documented, long-term impact of this to justify a stand-alone article; The sources you had in that version of the article were mostly from 12 to 15 December 2025. That's four days: so where is the "long-term impact"?).

    On the links you are now adding, I may beg your perdon but: why are you adding links to unrelated cases here? The two Politico links focus on the 2026 Adamuz train derailment and the 2026 Spanish regional elections; they only make passing-by mentions of the sexual misconduct allegations as a recent, but past ordeal (see WP:GNG and, particularly, WP:SUSTAINED). Equally for the Ground News source you add, which relates to a Senate intervention from Salazar regarding the Koldo case: it does not cover the scandal nor depicts it as "ongoing"; and the latest three sources you provide relate to entirely unrelated cases. Why are you mixing these together?

    Now, your above reply actually proves my points addressed above:

    • Firstly, because you keep ignoring to address my concerns on why you keep presenting the topic in an obviously disparaging, negative light towards a political party and members of a government without any kind of balance that the sources themselves do include (I explicitly asked you about this multiple times, some in this very same discussion). Actually, your latest reply does confirm your attempt at presenting sources and material in such a disparaging, negative light towards a particular side. You omitted the assertions of innocence, and PP's Landaluce case, contained in The Guardian source you yourself provided, rather cherry-picking the information you wanted to use to POVpush a particular view while discarding others. You also keep ignoring to address this concern.
    • Secondly, because you keep ignoring to address my concerns on why you deliberately excluded cases on other parties (and keep doing so; why didn't you add this, this, this, this, this, this, or this, to name just a few? Are these also "in Spanish" or are you otherwise unable to read or search for these?).
    • Thirdly, because you seem to refuse to explain why you kept adding such material into unrelated articles, giving it an undue relevance in these, following the AfD request on the 2025 Spanish Socialist Workers' Party sexual misconduct scandal article.
    • And finally, because your reply further reinforces the idea that you have a clear and persistent intent on 1) mixing up various, unconnected cases into a single major scandal for the sake of it, and 2) demonstrating culpability of some form, rather than sticking to the sources and balancing them to adhere to Wikipedia guidelines on WP:NPOV and WP:BLPCRIME.

    In this regard, thank you for your latest reply for proving all of my points. I sincerely hope you address them at some point. Impru20talk 00:12, 19 February 2026 (UTC)

    As a side note, I had not spotted that the OP's opening post could be LLM generated, as pointed out by another user above. Should that be the case, we would be discussing a potential breach of WP:LLMCOMM here, aside of the aforementioned concerns. Impru20talk 10:38, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
    It feels like we're going in circles. Alongside new, unfounded assumptions, you continue to repeat the same accusations against me while disregarding most of my points.
    Impru20: What is the documented, long-term impact of this to justify a stand-alone article"; "The sources you had in that version of the article were mostly from 12 to 15 December 2025. That's four days: so where is the "long-term impact"?
    Even if the scandal regarding sexual harassment allegations suddenly ended and everything was closed, which is not true, the scandal lasted at least from Salazar's resignation in July 2025 to December 2025, when the accusations and resignations of several politicians and high-ranking members of the PSOE party were reported by foreign media.
    Impru20: On the links you are now adding, I may beg your perdon but: why are you adding links to unrelated cases here?
    All the articles I have listed here either fully address or at least mention sex scandals in Spanish politics, primarily related to the Spanish government and the PSOE.
    Impru20: Firstly, because you keep ignoring to address my concerns on why you keep presenting the topic in an obviously disparaging, negative light towards a political party and members of a government without any kind of balance that the sources themselves do include
    I keep saying over and over that I am open to adding the defense of the accused to the main article and to other related articles, as well as including information about the sexual scandals of other parties. By the way, you are also free to make such edits; I would not delete them. Yet, you keep accusing me repeatedly of not wanting to do so, ignoring what I have already said. It has become difficult to edit anything when you automatically revert most of my changes regarding sexual misconduct allegations in Spanish politics.
    Impru20: Secondly, because you keep ignoring to address my concerns on why you deliberately excluded cases on other parties
    As I have already mentioned multiple times, I would not object to renaming the main article to Sexual misconduct allegations in Spanish politics (2025) or something similar, since allegations of sexual misconduct have involved politicians and officials from other parties as well, although probably not to the same extent as in the case of the PSOE.
    Impru20: Thirdly, because you seem to refuse to explain why you kept adding such material into unrelated articles, giving it an undue relevance in these
    You still have not reasonably explained why pages about Yolanda Díaz or Alberto Núñez Feijóo should not include their own statements regarding the sexual misconduct allegations that, according to media reports, have shaken the PSOE.-- Tobby72 (talk) 12:43, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
    Since this is going nowhere and, frankly, just going in circles, I am considering WP:DISENGAGE. -- Tobby72 (talk) 14:14, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
    Firstly, I know my username, so no need to repeat it five times for no reason.
    "you continue to repeat the same accusations against me while disregarding most of my points." You have made no new points. I have already answered all of your points. Now, replying to your comment:
    1) "Even if the scandal regarding sexual harassment allegations suddenly ended and everything was closed, which is not true" Can you provide evidence that the scandal is still open? I am also curious on how you are able to say this, considering that most of the sources involving this case are in Spanish and you have acknowledged yourself to "not speak Spanish". How can you make a definitive assertion on whether the case is open or not if you have acknowledged to not being able to understand the main language of the sources covering it? Also, you have been told (with sources) than judicial proceedings on the specific case on Salazar have been closed, yet you still claim that it is still open somehow. "the scandal lasted at least from Salazar's resignation in July 2025 to December 2025" And this is, at best, partially false. The case was in the media for a few days in July 2025. Then, it came up again in December 2025, in a different fashion (the July story was about the allegations themselves, the December story was about the party's handling of the allegations). It was not in the media from July 2025 to December 2025. You attempt to depict this as it this was some form of continuously developing story, when it was only routine coverage and political reactions for a few days in those months.
    2) "All the articles I have listed here either fully address or at least mention sex scandals in Spanish politics, primarily related to the Spanish government and the PSOE." So, you acknowledge the POVpushing here? Firstly, because you have not focused on "sex scandals in Spanish politics" as a whole, but only those "related to the Spanish government and the PSOE". You have omitted multiple other cases affecting other parties (and even the regional PP government in Madrid). At this point, since you have kept doing this even after you were noted on it multiple times, it must be assumed you do so deliberately. Then, just because something tangentially mentions something that you think may be used to build some story does not mean you should do that. WP:SYNTH is a policy; you cannot just mix a bunch of unconnected cases into a single major scandal just because you feel like it. Many of the sources you provide do not mix all of these stories together. These are not connected to each other, neither in time, nor in scope, nor in location, etc.
    3) "I keep saying over and over that I am open to adding the defense of the accused to the main article and to other related articles" So, why haven't done it so far and keep ignoring to do it as we speak? You have had multiple opportunities to demonstrate your willingness to do this, yet so far you have refused to do so. All of your edits are focused on the same POVpushing. Also, please note that "adding the defense of the accused" is not something that can be done at your pleasure, but rather, a direct consequence and requisite of WP:BLPCRIME. You are basically accusing people of committing crimes in your edits and you have cared little to nothing to provide their own viewpoints as reported by the same sources you attempt to use to back you up. This is not just a NPOV breach, but also has potential for causing trouble for Wikipedia as a whole. "It has become difficult to edit anything when you automatically revert most of my changes regarding sexual misconduct allegations in Spanish politics." Not a single one of your edits added a single line containing anything other than POVpushing against this political party and the Spanish government and assuming the culpability of the accused. You made no attempt at adding the defense of the accused (despite this being reported in sources), you made no attempt at adding stories affecting other political parties (despite these being concurrent and being reported in sources), you made no attempt at adding different viewpoints (again, reported by sources) than those that matched your own view of the issue, nothing. Please do not pretend as if the diffs on your edits do not exist nor cannot be checked by other users.
    4) I am insisting on my point that "you keep ignoring to address my concerns on why you deliberately excluded cases on other parties". You proposing to "renaming the main article to Sexual misconduct allegations in Spanish politics (2025)" does not preclude the fact that, neither in your edits nor in your replies in this discussion, you have made the slightlest attempt at covering these. You excused yourself in that you "don't speak Spanish", yet you have been provided English language sources (some of these provided by you) that did cover these. On the arguments for or against the article's existence we already have the AfD; I must insist that this is not the venue to address it.
    5) "You still have not reasonably explained why pages about Yolanda Díaz or Alberto Núñez Feijóo should not include their own statements regarding the sexual misconduct allegations that, according to media reports, have shaken the PSOE" But I did? Multiple times? I repeteadly asked you to explain why these particular statements are more relevant to these people's biographies than any other statement of theirs. These two people may make dozens of statements each per week on multiple topics. Why are these statements, on these particular allegations "that have shaken the PSOE" (this is you, once again, POVpushing a particular viewpoint), relevant to these people? They are not even PSOE members. They have no direct or indirect involvement in these allegations. Why are these particularly relevant there? And, conversely (and taking your own arguments), why haven't you covered the PP cases in Alberto Núñez Feijóo's article, considering than that's his actual party and that he has been questioned on them? For example, the Spanish prime minister has recently criticized the PP for their different response when it comes to addressing reported cases in the PSOE as opposed to reported cases within their own party. Don't you think that this would merit some mention by you either, under your own arguments?
    Each new reply from yours only keeps reinforcing the idea that you kept POVpushing a particular story against PSOE and/or Spanish government-related politicians, amplifying their story and minimizing others. I understand that, in light of the existing arguments against you, you prefer to DISENGAGE, though I should remind that it was you who brought us here. Best regards. Impru20talk 16:01, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
    Update: Note that, due to the AfD having now been closed and the article having been fully reworked as 2024–2026 Spanish sexual misconduct allegations, NPOV issues have been mostly resolved. This does not apply to the editor's attempted edits in other articles but, since these have not been repeated, this is a non-issue at the moment. Thus (and since the other editor seems to have disengaged from the issue entirely), this discussion can be formally closed by an uninvolved editor. Impru20talk 10:53, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

    Ice hockey at the 2026 Winter Olympics

    [edit source]

    I added a section to the Ice hockey at the 2026 Winter Olympics – Men's tournament article to note the incident of Kash Patel celebrating with Team USA and its criticisms. I thought it was an appropriate placement since the page for Ice hockey at the 1998 Winter Olympics - Men's tournament has a similar section. @~2026-12204-73 removed my addition on the reasoning that it doesn't belong there. Would like to get input on whether that reasoning is justified, thanks. Spectrallights (talk) 09:56, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

    In general, controversy sections suck and should be avoided, they tend to become shit magnets. WP:CRITS, that essay is an essay. The thing isn't obviously WP:PROPORTIONate in that article IMO, and technically it's after the tournament. Note also that when you're citing WP:YAHOONEWS, it's very often syndicated, and you should cite the original, if it's WP:RS. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:25, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    Concur with GGS. I'm not a fan of Patel, or any Trump regime member, but a controversy section using a potentially syndicated news source is not a strong inclusion. Simonm223 (talk) 13:10, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    For clarity, Yahoo doesn't hide when they republish stuff, they mark it reasonably clearly. In this case [9] it was WP:DAILYDOT. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:34, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    While I agree with GGS's point about the issues with controversy section, I do think that at this point it would follow by WP:PROPORTION to at least include some coverage of the news. At this point it's been covered by WP:NBC, WP:AP, and WP:WAPO and has shown to be a notable news event directly related to the tournament. I also think the technicality of this happening after the tournament is extremely weak, the events in the news cycle happened in the immediate aftermath of the gold medal game and are inseparable to its outcome. I could see an argument for placing this on the USA team page directly instead to keep the tournament page itself cleaner, but I think regardless this belongs on Wikipedia. Yojo98 (talk) 15:08, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    This is a WP:NOTNEWS issue to a certain extent. American news covering an American reaction to an American political figure involving himself with an American team isn't necessarily encyclopedically relevant for the international tournament page. It might be more appropriate at Kash Patel. Simonm223 (talk) 15:23, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    It does mention hockey already. A sentence or so could be added on that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    I would certainly think it merits being added to the Kash Patel article as you mentioned.
    For the hockey pages, I do understand your point about WP:NOTNEWS, but the incident has attrached coverage internationally as well, see coverage from the BBC and Australia's ABC. We're now two full days from the actual even that's been covered, and I do think given the wide variety of coverage from reputable sources that it would be giving undue weight to omit from Wikipedia. I would maintain at this point that it should also belong on the page for this tournament, and I'm not exactly sure which of the four principals of WP:NOTNEWS its inclusion would be violating. To point #2, even with a paragraph-sized inclusion of the news discussed here, 80-90% of the page would still be concerning the tournament itself and would not give undue weight. Yojo98 (talk) 15:38, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    And I would also add that my account is not ECP certified, so I can't make the edits to Patel's page directly. Anyone else is welcome to use the sources above to add to his page. Yojo98 (talk) 15:40, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    I think that domestic American political controversies should be kept off the international tournament pages. That content can be added to the Kash Patel article as stated above. Pizzigs (talk) 17:05, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    I'm curious if there is any MOS or project related guidelines on this sort of subject. The news here has garnered the same if not more attention than the tribute and inclusion of the Gaudreau family, which right now has its own section on the page and only pertains to one team. I understand that is directly hockey related, but the line to drawn between two events that happened at the tournament (Patel in the locker room and the Gaudreau honoring) seems to only be that one is politically related. Sports and politics often overlap, is it current policy for tournament pages not to include directly connected political stories? Yojo98 (talk) 18:37, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
    I think WP:NOTNEWS, WP:PROPORTION and WP:VNOT are as close as you'll get. They all have plenty of room for disagreement, and the "answer" isn't obvious. WP:OTHERCONTENT is rarely helpful. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:13, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
    GGS, I really appreciate your detailed replies and guidance here. I think part of my issue here stems with the WP:EDITCON process here. There has been thoughtful, measured discussion on this thread, and then two simple reversals with little justification by the users who have undid the inclusion of this topic (@~2026-12204-73, and @Barcas91), other than the initial "this does not belong here."
    I understand WP:VNOT, but at this point given the wealth of verifiable coverage, the lack of any details of this story on the tournament page, USA men's team page, or Kash Patel page leads me to the conclusion that we are violating WP:PROPORTION by not including this information. Spectrallights made a similar point on my user talk page.
    I have edited the page with verifiable coverage of the story that is similar in length to the Johnny Gaudreau inclusion (which I 100% believe should be in the page, but has received far less verifiable coverage, especially internationally and outside of hockey media). Yojo98 (talk) 18:17, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
    @Yojo98 funnily enough, a user (is it the same user who first reverted me?) is attempting something similar at Talk:United States men's national ice hockey team#2026 Winter Olympics "Scandal". No, the incident was not something scandalous like doping. It is open to one's opinion whether the players' behavior and subsequent attendance of Trump's State of the Union address was wrong. But information about the incident and its aftermath should be included and contextualized. The content could be reworded for WP:NPOV, but complete omission reflects bias. Perhaps this discussion can be brought to WP:SPORTS? Spectrallights (talk) 08:19, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
    The WP:SPORTS page looks to be mostly dead, given the lack of replies to almost all new threads in the last few months. I'm going to summarize this discussion on the talk page for the article and welcome in the editors who have reverted its inclusion to explain there. If that fails to reach consensus, I will submit this issue to the WP:DRN notice board given where we are in the steps of achieving consensus. Yojo98 (talk) 14:18, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

    Input requested on a DYK hook that will run this weekend:

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    → Wikipedia talk:Did you know § emigration of Christians from Israel and Palestine (nom) 2

    There is another discussion about the same hook/article on that talk page. Rjjiii (talk) 22:57, 26 February 2026 (UTC)

    Advance UK

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    Another political page that could do from broad watchlisting. Simonm223 (talk) 00:33, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

    Shebakia: Infobox "Place of origin: Ottoman Empire" contradicted by cited source and article's own categories

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    Bohosquare1 (talk) 07:30, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

    Hi Bohosquare1, I have collapsed your comment here per WP:AITALK, as it was clearly generated by a large language model (i.e. an AI chatbot). I would normally say that you are free to rephrase your inquiry in your own words, but your same inquiry at WP:RSN had already received responses, and opening two simultaneous noticeboard inquiries stating the same arguments is generally discouraged. — Newslinger talk 19:54, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

    Opinion or fact?

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    As we know from WP:NPOV, we should avoid stating opinions as facts, and we should attribute opinions. However, if we can construct a factual wrapper sentence for an opinion, is it okay to assert that as a fact?

    For example, can this sentence stand alone in an article with no inline attribution:

    Fred Bloggs has been described by media outlets and journalists as both an accomplished Wikipedian[1][2][3][4] and an incompetent one[5][6][7][8].

    It is an assertion of fact about the two opinions held, and each of the cited sources mentions a different holder of the respective view. -- DeFacto (talk). 23:26, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

    I would consider that attributed, though in the least precise sense (as it's not saying which 'media outlets' are saying which thing). I would generally consider something like this based on other aspects of NPOV, like WP:DUE. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 00:08, 5 March 2026 (UTC)
    I think attribution helps. Using a "factual wrapper" might lead to WP:SYNTH - combining different sources into one sentence might suggest something that the sources don't actually support. Also see WP:SUBSTANTIATE. Asteramellus (talk) 02:56, 5 March 2026 (UTC)
    Any more views on this? Does it conflict with WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV or MOS:WEASEL? -- DeFacto (talk). 23:02, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
    It's fine in the lead or the intro to a section, if it's summarizing views we go into in more depth further down. Beyond that it also depends on what those citations are to - if we're combining a bunch of individual people saying these things, we do need some caution to avoid eg. synthing up a statement or implication that everyone thinks this. But it's still necessary to use constructions like this sometimes in leads to summarize widely disparate views that wouldn't be appropriate (or possible) to stuff into the lead individually. Another situation to consider, of course, is that we might have a source that itself says eg. "we surveyed a bunch of political science professors and they all say this guy is [great/horrid]", in which case we can just report that as fact. But even without that sort of secondary sourcing, as WP:WEASEL itself notes, we do have to sometimes summarize a bunch of disparate views in the lead; doing so isn't a problem as long as it's an accurate, even-handed summary of something that we cover in the body (and as long as the stuff in the body is appropriately WP:DUE and reflects the sort of balance required by WP:BALASP - which can sometimes be hard to establish when people are cramming a bunch of opinion-pieces into an article, and which is often a reason to prefer secondary sources summarizing opinions when available. But the problem there isn't really the summary per se, it's the inherent problem that stems from stuffing a bunch of primary opinions into an article.) --Aquillion (talk) 20:00, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
    yes. at risk of invoking an Reductio ad Hitlerum, an example The historian and biographer Ian Kershaw described Hitler as "the embodiment of modern political evil".[3] from the adolf hitler article.
    WP:DUE applies, but if some majority of well educated academics and researchers opine it, we can and must do WP:ATTRIBUTE of the opinion, and include it, without necessarily having to balance it with another opinion. User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 21:17, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
    it would also help to know context btw, all of this is dependent on the article, opinion, etc. User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 21:18, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
    @Bluethricecreamman (and @Aquillion), thanks for your views on this. The trigger for raising it here was the Restore Britain article in the Platform section, which starts:
    Restore Britain has been described by media outlets and journalists as both a far-right[2][33][16][34][35] and right-wing party[36][37][38][39]...
    -- DeFacto (talk). 21:41, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
    i assumed it was something like this. i have no sympathy for whitewashing, but there is a valid debate underlying this to be had here about when far-right descriptors are appropriate. User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 21:48, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
    It's not so much the particular opinions that are the problem, it is whether they are adequately described, contextualised and attributed. -- DeFacto (talk). 21:54, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
    Its easy enough to blanket criticize any statement as lacking context. Better to show your point with a proposal text replacement showing what the context that is missing User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 22:15, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

    Herod the Great

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    This is about [10]. Please chime in. tgeorgescu (talk) 00:52, 5 March 2026 (UTC)

    Thanks, I think we should have a discussion about this. I think it's genuinely unclear how we should handle this issue- I'm inclined to say we should put 1 BC first, but I understand why that might seem like an NPOV violation.
    As far as I can tell, the latest research on Herodian chronology (basically since Steinmann's 2009 article) overwhelmingly favors the 1 BC date for Herod's death. I haven't seen anyone from the 4 BC side respond to the new arguments, such as the testimony of Appian and Dio Cassius favoring a 36 BC date for Herod's siege (and hence a 1 BC death), or the coin evidence showing that Philip reckoned his reign from some time between Tishrei 6 and Elul 5 BC (not 4 BC), or the evidence from the Caligula statue crisis showing that the 4 BC date implies an incorrect Sabbatical year cycle. Nevertheless, Steinmann (2009) has been cited over 40 times, so it's not like he's being ignored. The other side just hasn't responded.
    That said, most scholars outside the very narrow field of Herodian chronology still seem to be citing the 4 BC date without questioning it. I think the question here is: what is the relevant set of experts? Herod specialists, or historians from adjacent fields? Montgolfière (talk) 01:54, 5 March 2026 (UTC)
    Marshak, Adam Kolman (9 May 2023) [11 January 2018]. Herod the Great (Report). doi:10.1093/obo/9780195393361-0251. Retrieved 5 March 2026. Clearly sides with 4 BCE.
    Pope Benedictus sides with 4 BCE, although one might suspect that for a Pope 1 BCE would be more convenient.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aehrmanblog.org+herod+steinmann has only two results. tgeorgescu (talk) 09:46, 5 March 2026 (UTC)
    I looked at some of these 40 citations and the reliable ones i saw seemed to follow a general trend: the consensus or majority view is 4 but point out the opposing view of Steinmann. Not familiar with all the issues here but seems a natural and not too difficult bit of content for the article. Creating "sides" and a "Herod specialists" group of authors or sources doesn't really seem to follow policy in basing content on the best respected and most authoritative reliable sources. If there is some division in the scholarship form "Herod specialists" then it should probably be discussed in the article text and you would need a reliable source which points that out—you can't make that call. fiveby(zero) 19:08, 5 March 2026 (UTC)
    That's not original research, it would be following the WP:BESTSOURCES. I haven't checked the sources to evaluate whether or not that the supposed division is accurate. Katzrockso (talk) 21:23, 5 March 2026 (UTC)
    Yeah, my thought was that the best sources are the scholars who have actually examined the primary pieces of evidence. It seems like the "consensus" of 4 BC is maintained primarily by scholars citing each other, or citing the 130 year old work of Schürer, without evaluating the evidence and arguments themselves. And yet, the evidence is frankly not that hard to evaluate, and once you see it, it's hard to take the 4 BC date very seriously. And tgeorgescu, I don't have access to the full text of the article you linked, but I see no indication from the bibliography or intro that it is engaging the question of chronology at all; it simply assumes that Schürer is correct. I have yet to see an actual response to the strongest 1 BC arguments, like the statue crisis and the coins. Montgolfière (talk) 01:32, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
    Look, here's Steinmann himself calling 4 the "consensus view" in 2020. fiveby(zero) 02:15, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
    I never denied that there is a "consensus" of ill-informed scholars who cite each other and a 130 year old book, rather than the actual primary sources. In my humble opinion, I don't think those scholars are the "best sources" for this issue. But if I'm outvoted on this, we can change the order back to "4 or 1 BCE." As long as we keep providing evidence and arguments in the Death/Dating section. Montgolfière (talk) 09:34, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
    Prior to your edits the article had (c. 72 – c. 4 BCE) and i suspect you've created a false balance within the "Dating" section. You don't get to declare "sides" say those which do not support your content position "ill-informed" and claim that is some application of WP:BESTSOURCES. A best sources approach would be, for instance, starting with the Oxford Bibliographies article from Marshak author of The Many Faces of Herod the Great linked by tgeorgescu. Examine what those authors say on the matter, how they characterize any disagreement in dating and who the cite on the issue. fiveby(zero) 13:35, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
    If you think I've created a false balance, I encourage you to actually look at the arguments for Schürer's chronology yourself. Feel free to add them to the Death/Dating section.
    I don't have access to the Marshak article. If you do, please go ahead and put his arguments for Schürer in Death/Dating. I suspect, however, that he will simply assume Schürer's chronology and will provide little or no justification for it. That's how this "consensus" gets perpetuated. Montgolfière (talk) 00:41, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
    I have to agree with @Fiveby now. For better or worse, Wikipedia puts greater weight on the balance of views within the academic community rather than our own interpretation of which perspectives have stronger arguments than each other. Given that Steinmann himself states that the majority view is the 4BCE date, that should receive greater weight. Hopefully the scholarship will change to reflect the weight of the arguments as you have assessed them.
    Here is an article from the opposing (1BCE) side [11] that replies to some of Steinmann's arguments, for what it's worth. This author has several more about this question as well ([12] [13] [14]).
    If there was a clear delineation of sources that are Herod experts vs those that comment on the chronology only in passing, that would be grounds for a distinction per WP:BESTSOURCES and WP:RSCONTEXT, but I didn't see such a delineation and indeed both 'sides' of this debate agree that the consensus view is the 4BCE date. Katzrockso (talk) 01:49, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
    The first article you cited misreads Antiquities 1.3.3 in support of Nisan reckoning; the word translated "ordinary affairs" is διοίκησις, which means "administration," which certainly would include the reigns of kings. Steinmann has pointed this out and if they had read him, they would know that they need to at least respond to this argument. Josephus clearly implies that kings use Tishrei reckoning, and he is an earlier source than the Mishnah. Josephus also demonstrably uses accession year reckoning, since in several places his math is inconsistent with inclusive counting, but not with accession years, as Steinmann and Young have also shown. Herod himself used accession year reckoning when he minted a "year 3" coin after taking Jerusalem, since if he used inclusive counting, it would be year 4.
    Links 13 and 14 seem to mostly respond to the weakest arguments for 1 BC. Link 15 is interesting, and I hadn't seen it before, but even if it's entirely correct it wouldn't rebut the decisive arguments from the Caligula statue crisis and coin evidence. Nevertheless, it might be worth mentioning in the article. Montgolfière (talk) 07:38, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
    Again, the issue isn't whether we can evaluate these arguments in the sources and decide that one source is better than the other. I could 100% agree with Steinmann and think that these rebuttals are all bogus (in reality I haven't read enough to comment), but we still have to reflect what the balance of reliable sources say, not our interpretation of those sources. Katzrockso (talk) 09:09, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
    I think the false balance comes not necessarily from present the 1 sources and discussing them, but presenting them as newer and unchallenged, your argument here. I was going to say that you should have access to Marshak through WP:Library, try logging on and viewing the link again. If that doesn't work Oxford Bibliographies is in the sources list. Unfortunately there seems to be a service issue with the Oxford collections right now. Encourage you to try later tho, lot's of very valuable and underutilized resources available.
    The specific article tho is annotated bibliography, a tertiary source and not really appropriate as a source for citation. It's useful maybe sometimes as a model for what WP content should look like, but mostly as a means for identifying best sources. I checked Marshak's The Many Faces of Herod the Great: he simply states 4 without qualification, discussion, or citations. Not really useful for article content here, but one indication of what the consensus view is and how far disputed. Haven't checked anything else yet. fiveby(zero) 17:35, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
    So far the sources i am seeing supporting your view is along these lines ...acording to most scholars, occurred in 4 BCE with footnote For the dissenting view arguing he died in 2/1 BCE see...FILMER...STEINMANN. (what about 5?) Ideally we do i think want to find a quality independent source which directly addresses the issue and presents arguments and counter-arguments. If such has not been written yet or we are unable to find it then i think the content should default to 4 with footnote and some limited content in the body. fiveby(zero) 18:22, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
    As far as I can tell, the latest research on Herodian chronology (basically since Steinmann's 2009 article) overwhelmingly favors the 1 BC date for Herod's death. I don't think that that's true at all. Your argument seems to boil down to dismissing absolutely anyone post 2009 who uses the 4 BCE date as just citing the 4 BC date without questioning it, but that's your personal assessment; it seems to me that our default assessment ought to be that Steinmann has proposed a novel theory which has not yet attracted much support. Based on that, we should use 4 in the lead and template (solely, not first, but as the only number), and mention Steinmann solely in a sentence in the body somewhere. His paper qualifies as something akin to what we'd call a single study with an exceptional conclusion in other contexts I don't agree with the argument that "Herod specialists" support Steinmann, and that feels like a No true scotsman argument where you're excluding anyone who rejects his argument from being a specialist because you think they're wrong. Your edit here were inappropriately lending undue weight to Steinmann's largely marginal views, and ought to be entirely reverted. Steinmann should get one or two sentences, maybe a paragraph at most, which make it clear that his views are marginal; he shouldn't be referenced anywhere else and all other dates should treat 4 BC as the accepted date, as it is. --Aquillion (talk) 19:35, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
    While I agree that the 4BC date is the predominant/consensus one and should receive much greater WP:WEIGHT, it is factually inaccurate to claim that Steinmann has proposed a novel theory or that he is the only proponent. The original proponent of this alternative chronology is actually Filmer in 1966. Steinmann cites a number of others who agree with Filmer's chronology;

    Those who accept Filmer’s 1 BC for the death of Herod include Ormond Edwards, “Herodian Chronology,” Palestine Exploration Quarterly 114 (1982): 29–42; Paul Keresztes, Imperial Rome and the Christians: From Herod the Great to About 200 A.D. (Lanham, MD: University Press of America, 1989): 1–43; Ernest L. Martin, The Birth of Christ Recalculated, 2nd ed. (Pasadena, CA: Foundation for Biblical Research, 1980); idem “The Nativity and Herod’s Death,” in Chronos, Kairos, Christos, 85–92; Jack Finegan, Handbook of Biblical Chronology, (rev. ed.; Peabody, MA; Hendrickson, 1998): 284-291, §486–500 and table 139; Andrew E. Steinmann, “When Did Herod the Great Reign?” Novum Testamentum 51 (2009): 1–2

    I bolded the distinct names for emphasis. Again, this does not mean that these scholars constitute the majority view, but it definitely means that Steinmann hasn't proposed any "novel theory". I also disagree that this would constitute such a marginal view to be confined to only a few sentences in the body. Indeed, as this articles notes [15], technically the 1 BCE dating precedes Filmer and was perhaps first proposed in 1629.
    We should report what 'both' "sides" say in the text, but be careful not to give undue WEIGHT to the minority 1BCE date. An alternative might be to create an article on Chronology of Herod the Great given the volume of published literature on the topic and then summarize it WP:SUMMARYSTYLE in the parent article.
    An even more minority view would be that of this paper [16], which argues that Herod died in 3AD. There are a few other dates out there too, such as John Pratt's 1AD [17]. Vladimir Blaha was another proponent of the 1AD dating for Herod's death, based on his chronology giving Jesus's births in 1BC. A few people have even entertained a 5BC date of death for Herod [18] Katzrockso (talk) 01:36, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
    A less reliable source here [19], since I am unfamiliar with this publication, but it also argues for a 1BC/1AD date of death for Herod.
    This book by simple:Gerard Gertoux "Herod the Great and Jesus: Chronological, Historical and Archaeological Evidence" presents a contrast between "mainstream historians" and "scientific scholars" on the date of death of Herod, and he supports a date of 1BC as supported by "scientific scholars".
    I wonder if there is more scholarship in other languages. Katzrockso (talk) 01:47, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

    Milton Hershey School

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    I was contacted by an editor (who is an employee of the Milton Hershey School) who requested the removal of an entry in the "History" section on the school's page regarding a 2013 suicide that occurred at the school. They argued that this was WP:UNDUE due to courts having cleared the school of wrongdoing in subsequent lawsuits. Now obviously, there is another aspect of WP:RELEVANCE to figure out, but I ask if it is still neutral to have this mention of a suicide on a school's page even if the school itself was legally cleared of wrongdoing. Red0ctober22 (talk) 13:46, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

    I see your comments at the talk regarding WP:RELEVANCE. I think the entry should be removed per WP:UNDUE - this seems to be an individual tragedy and litigation (WP:ROUTINE) news coverage without lasting impact to this school. Reaching the federal court may seem relevant, but a single incident/event - it does not seems to be significant to the topic. Also maybe see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Balancing aspects. Asteramellus (talk) 14:42, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

    Maria Montessori

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    This is about https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maria_Montessori&diff=1341851108&oldid=1341002893

    An IP claims that is over the top, and above all grammatically incorrect. Please chime in. tgeorgescu (talk) 18:52, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

    WP:TOOSOON tgeorgescu? Not meaning notability but just ability to include right now. de:Maria Montessori has Seichter[20] and Hopmann[21] but unless there's a German speaker around i don't know what can be done. fiveby(zero) 19:57, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
    I dropped "eugenicist";
    I added a peer-reviewed source in English;
    Conclusion: yes, she was a racist. It does not mean that Montessori education is racist, though. tgeorgescu (talk) 21:09, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
    I don't know, think someone with the language skills willing to take this on would easily be able to put some eugenics material back according to Seichter

    Montessoris Denken und Wirken war von früh an beseelt und angetrieben von ihrem Glauben an die Perfektionierung des Menschen. Die Klimax ihrer »Menschenverbesserungsvisionen« erreichte sie in ihren späten Vorstellungen von der Schaffung eines »Ministry of the Race« (1951), verstanden im Sinne eines nationalen »Ministeriums zur Verbesserung der menschlichen Rasse«. Ganz ihrer rassenhygienischen Ideologie folgend, der sie seit Beginn ihres Wirkens in den 1890er Jahren unbeirrt treu blieb, schwärmte noch die hochbetagte Ärztin und Biologin von der (sozio-biologischen) »Züchtung« des kultivierten Menschen. Anscheinend völlig geschichtsblind gegenüber der Barbarei von (italienischem) Faschismus und (deutschem) Nationalsozialismus und deren millionenfaches Morden im Namen eines eugenisch durchtränkten menschenverachtenden Rassismus und unberührt von den unfassbaren Gräueltaten des Zweiten Weltkriegs hielt Montessori unbeirrt an ihrem ungebändigten Fortschrittsoptimismus und dem Glauben an eine »Kultivierung der Menschheit« qua Eugenik und Rassenideologie fest. Im Jahre 1951, also noch unmittelbar vor ihrem Tode, schreibt die damals 81 Jahre alte »Dottoressa«, wie sie von ihren Adepten lebenslang genannt wurde, tief enttäuscht: »Unserer Epoche, die sich durch ihren erstaunlichen Fortschritt auszeichnet, mangelt es jedoch an etwas, was wesentlich für die Zivilisation ist, und dies könnten wir als ›Kultivierung der Menschheit‹ bezeichnen. Auf dem Gebiet der Landwirtschaft wurde so große Mühe aufgewandt und wurden so viele Erfolge beim Züchten neuer, wunderschöner Blumenarten und Obstsorten erzielt! Dazu steht jedoch in auffälligem Widerspruch, dass kein ähnlicher Versuch unternommen wird ›die Menschheit zu kultivieren‹.«[citing Das Ministerium für menschliche Entwicklung 1951]

    — Seichter 2024

    By the way i hate looking at German but seem to often when you raise something on a noticeboard. fiveby(zero) 23:06, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
    She did have admiration for famous eugenicists, but she was probably not so extreme. It is perhaps unfair to judge her by one book and by her laboratory. tgeorgescu (talk) 07:28, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

    Mohammad Reza Pahlavi

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    Pro-Pahlavi new user keeps trying to write information about Pahlavi (Iranian shah) having a positive legacy in wikivoice. @ImperialSupreme: did the bold addition, and is unwilling to revert the change, claiming sourcing is sufficient.

    More eyes would be helpful User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 19:34, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

    Multiple social media posts referring to past tense in palestinian cities

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    there appears to be a set of social media posts[22][23] that talk about how wikipedia is referring to Rafah, Beit Hanoun, Al-Qaraya al-Badawiya, and Al Qarya as Suwaydiya.

    not necessarily saying we take action, but at least one account @Datawikiperson: has been trying to change rafah from past tense to present tense .

    from page discussion, i dont see a substantive consensus to have changed to past tense either.? User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 10:14, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

    @Bluethricecreamman: A tiktoker and a Facebook post of a state-run media outlet are not how consensus is decided on Wikipedia. On the Rafah page, this issue is already being discussed. Datawikiperson contributed a single sentence to the discussion and has been edit-warring on a 1RR topic. Is there some actual purpose to this noticeboard post? -- Veggies (talk) 13:13, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
    To notify folks this was happening. It appears there are several IP editors on the rafah page at least, which is concerning for an ecr article. And the article appears to be in the middle of an edit war that could be solved by bringing in experienced editors to discuss User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 15:45, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
    Unfortunately, I think statements of the form "media/social media posts are not how consensus is decided on Wikipedia" are probably incomplete descriptions of the actual state of affairs, which is more complicated. What is definitely true is that there are off-wiki partisan groups and influencers and what they say can impact what happens here. They can direct the attention of people, including some editors, to specific pages and/or specific editors. This is, I suppose, functionally a search for people susceptible to influence, and it can be effective. The effects can be seen in pageviews, edit requests, edit warring etc. A single post can be enough to trigger a set of editors to self-assemble at a target article and those editors participate in the consensus forming process. So, there is off-wiki cause and on-wiki effect. There are numerous examples of this in the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area and elsewhere. It appears to be quite easy to find editors susceptible to influence and cause them to direct their attention to specific things. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:45, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
    i'd argue the best remedy given that the damage is done is advertising and being open about this on a public noticeboard on wikipedia when this is detected.
    The TRT news article could be added to the appropriate talk page article under the Template:Media mention User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 01:10, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
    It is interesting to watch the power laws of social media influence crash into a wall, the sort of flat all-editors-are-created-equal structures in Wikipedia. It would be great if people were just open about it and said, "I saw xyz off-wiki, so I'm here". But I suspect the best remedy might be to out-compete the external factors by having much more effective ways to increase participation in consensus forming discussions like RfCs that are better at sampling the editor population...which is pretty large and diverse. I have no idea how to do that though. Sean.hoyland (talk) 08:11, 11 March 2026 (UTC)
    The danger of past tense - The Daily Star Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:05, 11 March 2026 (UTC)

    NPOV in 4B Movement Article

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    Within the 4B Movement article, there is a section dedicated to criticisms of the movement at the bottom that, in my opinion, should mostly be deleted or heavily reworded for neutrality and undue weight. I have made a talk page discussion about this but not many people responded. Could someone take a look at this and give some guidance on whether it violates the neutral point of view policy and how to fix the issue?

    Thank you.

    StructuredFlorescence (talk) 15:12, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

    Need opinion on Paštrovići article

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    There is a disagreement between me and other editor on Paštrovići page you can also see the tp [[24]], in my opinion if there are different theroeis about the origin of the tribe it should not be part of the lead, the other editor thinks we should include all theories. Which is the right WP:Npov way? Theonewithreason (talk) 13:22, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

    Additional eyeballs at Pornography Act (Austria)

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    Hi. An issue came up recently at Pornography Act (Austria) regarding the neutrality of having an article sourced primarily on this one source. In this case, the author is very well known, possibly the definitive author on the topic. However, the source is 25 years old and unfootnoted, and it's not clear if it is a book, conference or workshop proceedings, or what. (Full text available in German.) I am not sure how to deal with this. Your feedback at Talk:Pornography Act (Austria)#More balanced sourcing needed would be appreciated. Mathglot (talk) 03:10, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

    It seems to be from a policy institute ("Austrian Institute for Family Studies"), which is based at the University of Vienna. I commented with some sources I found, but many I was not able to access. Katzrockso (talk) 02:12, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
    Retrieved from "https://eurovision.jobogamer.xyz/index.php?title=Eurovision_Wiki:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard&oldid=3294"